Flying WA to MI

Flying WA to MI

This is a discussion on Flying WA to MI within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'll be traveling to Michigan via Detroit Metro airport. I plan to take my Glock 23 with me from Sea-Tac. All I have to take ...

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Thread: Flying WA to MI

  1. #1
    Member Array FreeDelivery's Avatar
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    Flying WA to MI

    I'll be traveling to Michigan via Detroit Metro airport. I plan to take my Glock 23 with me from Sea-Tac. All I have to take it in is the Glock clamshell case. (This is my first time traveling with a handgun)

    Because the case has no built-in place to secure a lock, I'm left with the option of using one of the following around the case's handle:

    -Long padlock on the handle, then a trigger lock through the padlock to take up the space between the lock base and the case handle.
    -Flexible barrel lock wrapped around the handle 3 times, then secured.

    Have any of you had to improvise like this before? I spoke to a TSA rep, who said that it should be fine as long as the case cannot be opened without a key. I think I'll be okay, but would appreciate any advice.

    (I called Michigan State Police to get an overview of their laws, and to verify reciprocity for a Washington State CPL.)


  2. #2
    Member Array Cericko's Avatar
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    Glock in the hold

    As a frequent flyer, I've asked many about this and the concensus from TSA and the airlines has been that they cannot and will not take responsibility for the firearm after it has been given to the TSA. Keep in mind that the airlines do NOT offer proper compensation for lost or damaged baggage. I don't trust most of these underpaid government and airline employees. Hope you get there with all of your personal effects.
    "A strong body makes a mind strong. As to the exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the Body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind . . . Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
    --Thomas Jefferson August 1785

  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    Here's the Michigan official info.

    MSP - Michigan's Concealed Pistol Law - FAQs

    I would lock the case - but ALSO put the case in a small lockable
    briefcase - so it doesn't look obvious.

    And Make Sure your luggage is INSURED!!!

    -------
    -SIG , it's What's for Dinner-

    know your rights!
    http://www.handgunlaw.us

    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
    {Bernhard Goetz}

  4. #4
    Member Array FreeDelivery's Avatar
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    I have been cautioned many times that airlines will not cover lost items, but how often do you hear about handguns being stolen from personal luggage?

    I suppose I could do without taking the handgun, but I prefer to stay armed when possible.

  5. #5
    Member Array theotherlis's Avatar
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    For what it's worth - I've flown several dozens of times, international, domestic, many airlines. Luggage has been lost once (and took 2 weeks to come back) and a couple of times luggage has arrived back but obviously inspected. Never had anything stolen from it though.

    Insurance would be a good idea to look into though. And not exclusively for the firearm. I know that if I put my firearm and case into my luggage with everything else and assume the entire thing was lost en route - of the total amount lost the firearm would probably end up being %40-50, if you count the clothing, suitcase itself, etc.

  6. #6
    Member Array Cericko's Avatar
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    I fly every week - two to six flights – all domestic. I've never spoken to anyone that has "lost" a firearm, but that's not the topic of discussion I want to have with anyone as I board. ;-) I have talked with a lot of people who have lost many expensive items that they put in their hold-luggage. Just be careful. That's all...and good luck!
    "A strong body makes a mind strong. As to the exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the Body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind . . . Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."
    --Thomas Jefferson August 1785

  7. #7
    Member Array FreeDelivery's Avatar
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    The e-mail reply I just got from TSA

    Thank you for your email message concerning the checked baggage screening process and how it affects passengers carrying firearms in checked baggage.

    On flights that originate in the U.S. passengers can transport a firearm in accordance with 49 CFR 1540.111 under the following conditions:



    . the firearm must be unloaded;
    . it must be in checked, not carry-on, baggage;
    . it must be in a locked hard-sided container; and
    . it must be declared to the airline.



    If these conditions are met, the airline will place a declaration tag inside the checked baggage containing the firearm. This notice alerts Transportation Security Officers (TSOs) to the presence of the firearm if they have to open the bag to inspect it.



    The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is required by law to electronically screen all checked baggage that goes aboard a commercial passenger flight. If electronic screening cannot verify that a bag and its contents are safe to bring onboard the flight, TSOs will inspect the bag by hand. TSA, therefore, encourages (but does not require) passengers to keep their checked bags unlocked to facilitate the process and reduce the need to break locks.

    TSA recommends that you place the locked hard-sided container with the firearm inside a suitcase or other bag before you check it with your airline. This will allow you to leave your suitcase unlocked but also to comply with the requirement that the firearm be in a locked container.

    You can use a hard-sided locked suitcase as the sole container for your firearm. However, this can lead to one of the two following complications if your bag needs to be inspected by hand:

    . If the TSOs can determine from the screening equipment that the bag contains a firearm, they will not open it. They will instead attempt to locate you and obtain the key or combination so that they can inspect the bag. If they cannot locate you, the bag will not be allowed onboard the aircraft.

    . If the TSOs do not see that the bag contains a firearm before they open it, they may force open the lock and proceed to inspect the bag. Once the lock is forced open, the bag cannot be allowed on an aircraft until it is relocked. TSA will attempt to locate you and make suitable arrangements.



    These potential inconveniences can be avoided by following TSA's recommendation that you pack your firearm by itself in a separate, hard-sided, locked container and pack the container inside your suitcase. If TSOs need to open your bag to inspect it, they will be able to do so with out breaking a lock on the bag.

    Once the TSOs open the bag, they will see the declaration in your suitcase and will not open the locked container encasing the firearm. They will proceed to search the bag, close it, and (presuming the bag is free of prohibited items) will be able to allow it onboard your flight.

    We encourage you to visit our website at TSA | Transportation Security Administration | U.S. Department of Homeland Security for additional information about TSA. We continue to add new information and encourage you to check the website frequently for updated information.

    TSA Contact Center

  8. #8
    Member Array FreeDelivery's Avatar
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    I'll start looking into the insurance option.

  9. #9
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    Update

    NWA doesn't offer baggage insurance. Oh well.

    I got to Michigan just fine. I declared my handgun at the Alaska counter (first flight was with Alaska, 2nd with NWA - both booked through NWA), they had me go to a security booth area with a wall dividing the booth area from the public. I opened the bag, showed my zip-tied Glock, and the security agent "randomed" my bag (randomly chose it for inspection), using a swab to check for explosives.

    Once my bag was cleared, I was able to lock it up and rest assured that it wouldn't need to be opened from there on out (unless a dog alerted on it or something).

    All is well. I arrived safely, I'm armed, and am getting on with my trip.

    Thanks for the help!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Array rmarkob's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure about using the Glock case. Unless your outer suitcase is hard-sided, like a Pelican case or Zero Halliburton or such, you should probably get a lockable case like the one in the top left of this site: Center Of Mass Central. Cabela's and other places sell it under the "Secure It" trademark, for around $30.

    I don't remember if it came with a cable or if that was extra, but I use the braided steel cable to connect the box to the frame of my roller bag, and secure the bag itself with a TSA lock.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

  11. #11
    Member Array GHFLRLTD's Avatar
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    Traveiling With a Companion

    Having traveled a number of times, here's how I go at it:

    1. Put the unloaded weapon(s) in a lockable hard-sided case with locks only you have the keys/combination to open. TSA locks are not allowed. Review http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1666.shtm to understand TSA policies and procedures. Have a copy with you when you reach the airport.
    2. Steps that will make it easier to show that the weapon is unloaded - especially when x-rayed.
      • If the weapon is a:
        • semi-automatic
          • lock the slide open
          • put a cable tie through the barrel and out the breach to show that the chamber is empty
        • revolver, flip the cylinder out
      • Do not put the magazines in this locked case with the gun(s):
        • it invites questions about them being loaded
        • if the gun case is "liberated" from the checked bag by a Criminal Entrepreneur, the lack of magazines frustrates the "Liberator", since the weapon is now initially a single shot one
    3. Check the airline(s) you are flying on:
      • To determine if the ammo
        • MUST be in boxes (plastic reload boxes work)
        • can fly in loaded magazines
      • If loaded magazines are permitted, make sure the pouches fully cover the magazines
      • The round(s) from the chamber(s)/cylinder(s) must be in a box, not loose
    4. Secure and protect magazines (separately from the weapon) and ammunition boxes from possible damage.
    5. Put the lockable hard-sided case with the weapon and the ammo/magazines into a cheap, non-descript bag - with clear labeling outside and inside - for checking in.
      • If possible, develop a way to attach - in a lockable way - the hard-sided case to the piece of luggage it has been placed into.
      • The labeling should be limited to:
        • Your Name
        • Your Cell Phone - if you have one, or your home phone if you do not
        • Your personal email address - if you have one
        • NO ADDRESSES, JOB TITLES, ORGANIZATIONS SHOULD BE INDICATED
    6. Other stuff - like shampoo, mouthwash, toothpaste, etc, could be in this checked bag also.
    7. Have the rules for the airline in hand when you check this non-descript bag at the airport.
    8. Make sure you have the keys/combinations to the lockable hard-sided case with you and you alone (Per Federal Regulations 49CFR 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals - Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:) at all times. You will have to open the lockable hard-side case:
      • to demonstrate to the airline that the weapon(s) are not loaded at check in (a signed form/tag indicating that will go in with the weapon(s))
      • if the TSA wants to see
    9. 9.Have the serial number(s) and descriptions of your weapons on you, so if they "disappear" you can report the loss/theft immediately to the:
      • airline
      • FAA Regional Office
      • ATF Regional Office

    Other things to consider:

    1. Check Handgunlaw.us and/or Pack-N-Go Carry Concealed Trip Planner to determine:
      • If you can possess the weapon at all your stops
      • Where and how you can carry at all your stops
      • What are the deadly force rules in each state you are visiting
    2. Have a copy of the Don Young Transportation Letter on hand - http://www.anjrpc.org/DefendingYourR...s%20letter.pdf. This covers changing modes of travel - car to plane to car - in a single journey.
    George H. Foster
    Orlando, Florida

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