Yes, I carry at work -without permission.

This is a discussion on Yes, I carry at work -without permission. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Czampion I politely decline because they are telling me I am not welcome. As for your first question about company policies, as ...

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Thread: Yes, I carry at work -without permission.

  1. #151
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czampion View Post
    I politely decline because they are telling me I am not welcome.

    As for your first question about company policies, as I have stated, I haven't seen any mention of weapons in the workplace. I've heard lots of ideas, though, in or Emergency Action Plan briefing and in the Active Shooter Training. During EAP training one fellow employee was appalled that guests to our facility were permitted to carry a concealed pistol. Said employee couldn't concieve that people would do it and law would allow for it! The instructor assured her it was both common and acceptable under the law of Alaska.
    Well, if the company does not have a policy against it and your employer has not told you that you cannot carry a firearm or weapon, I do not see a problem with it legally or ethically. If that isn't true, even if it was verbal, it becomes an ethical problem. Which of course, you are free to decide how you want to handle.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  3. #152
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    It's strange, but I feel I have to post the same response in nearly half the threads here.

    A ccw helps you manage your personal risk. Knowing when and where to carry is a matter of trying to quantify (to the best of your ability) the unkown. I can't make this decision for you, but here's my back-of-the-napkin calculus:

    I work in a nice office on occasion and usually only stay there a few hours a week to attend in-house meetings. The rest of the time, I work from home, then travel and stay at hotels and visit other offices or attend meetings in hotels. I get paid handsomely for this rather laid back gig. I also carry a VERY sizable insurance policy partly paid by my employer. In the event of my death while employed, my wife will not only be well-cared for, she will become relatively wealthy.

    My office absolutely forbids concealed carry in ALL their facilities in the employee handbook. They allow me to carry OC spray if I care to. If I am reported for a ccw at work, I WILL be dismissed.

    The likelihood some nutjob shoots me up in my office are beyond miniscule. My fellow employees are all degreed professionals making handsome salaries. I am on the top floor of a large building behind secured doors. The killer would most likely have to be a fellow employee. Could it happen? Sure. How likely? Only you can decide.

    What's the likelihood I would get made by one of the dozens of Utopian "antis" I work around, be reported, then dismissed? That's a much more significant likelihood. I would lose my great job, my big salary, my insurance benefits, etc. Also, word would get out in my community, and getting a similar type of job would be even more difficult.

    I get attacked and killed at work: wife gets rich, has houses paid off, pays off all the adult kid's school loans and mortgages. Buys herself a new Porsche 911 Carrera. They throw a blowout Irish funeral. Everyone gets drunk, they dump some Scotch over my grave and get on with their lives.

    I get made at wok and then sacked: wife and I still have bills to pay, I have to spend months looking for another job and may ultimately settle for something that pays a LOT less. I lose insurance and health benefits. I may have to move and take a loss on one of the houses. Etc.

    That's my scenario. I choose not to carry at work. YMMV.

    I call BS. There's no way anyone would pour scotch over your grave at a good Irish funeral!

    Other than that though, an extraordinarily well articulated post, and right on the money.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

    Theodore Roosevelt

  4. #153
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    If a LEO were to witness the OP carrying at work, what would he be charged with? Bupkis! Why? Because he has a legal right to carry there. If the boss simply fires him, the OP still retains the right to carry on the property. This is why a trespass charge is necessary.
    I'm responding to this quote only and not to anything the OP said or didn't say. If you are guilty of trespassing, you are guilty even if you aren't charged. It sounds to me, from reading your posts, that you are of the variety of "Cop didn't see it. I didn't do it."

    I guess I'm getting from your posts that people are not breaking the law unless charges are brought. That's a very dangerous way to live one's life. If that is not what you are saying here, please clarify.

    For the record, you do not have a right to do anything in places it is prohibited. If a property owner does not want you there because of something you possess, I believe it is their right to ask you to leave.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  5. #154
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    If you are guilty of trespassing, you are guilty even if you aren't charged. It sounds to me, from reading your posts, that you are of the variety of "Cop didn't see it. I didn't do it."
    It's only trespassing if you're ask to leave and you refuse. Unless it's posted No Trespassing.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  6. #155
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    It's only trespassing if you're ask to leave and you refuse. Unless it's posted No Trespassing.
    No. If the company makes it clear that they do not want it on their property (and the OP said they didn't) and you ignore that, you are already guilty of trespassing. Stan keeps making it sound like the company has to bring charges for it to be wrong. I disagree with that. And in Ohio, you do not have to be posted for it to be trespassing. I do not know the laws in other states.

    I think we are getting away from the original point behind this. They have not made it a policy but for some reason the OP feels he would be fired for doing so as he knows the feelings of his employer but refuses to abide by those wishes. And some how those of us who state we abide by our employers wishes are in the wrong or are boy scouts.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  7. #156
    New Member Array USF Rugger7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    I call BS. There's no way anyone would pour scotch over your grave at a good Irish funeral!
    HAHAHA... funny... I'm glad someone noticed that beside me
    Really... I believe you..

  8. #157
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faitmaker View Post
    No. If the company makes it clear that they do not want it on their property (and the OP said they didn't) and you ignore that, you are already guilty of trespassing.
    Morally speaking, Then possibly Yes. Legally speaking, simply NO. You must be verbally ask to leave the premises and refuse to do so before you can be charged with Trespassing. Unless as I stated in my previous post, It is posted No trespassing. "NO WEAPONS" does not translate over to suit yours or anyones arguments. I'm an employer and I know the law regarding asking an employee that has been terminated to leave the premises.

    And yes, this thread has been pulled this way and that way, but the fact remains the same. The OP is not breaking state law period. It's a ethical thing that allot of folks want to make a legal thing, and it simply isn't that at all.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  9. #158
    Member Array doctorw's Avatar
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    Remember this is a public forum. You let your conscious be your guide. Don't be too critical of the people on this forum. We wouldn't be here if we did not support the RTKBA. What I am saying is, I don't want there to ever be documentation from some public forum somewhere proving that I encouraged people to break the law. What you write on the web lasts forever.

    I believe that if we give enough people legitimate concern about concealed carriers NOT being law abiding, that we might just lose our rights all together. There is a thing called self fulfilling prophecy. If you are rebellious and defiant of authority, at some point you will have a confrontation, but you have yourself to blame.

    I would rather see us gain ground by proving ourselves to be the good guys--good citizens who have constitutional rights. I hope that makes sense? I pray you or I never have to defend ourselves. I also pray we will be armed if we do.

  10. #159
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    +1. agreed. IMO no CC holder should ever break any CC laws as defined by their state. The higher ethical and moral standards set by some, does not necessarily condemn the others that chose to ignore these same values to the realm of the common criminal, as some have eluded to.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  11. #160
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottabkiddin View Post
    Yeah, that's what I said. The thread was about the guy carrying at work, WHICH, is between him and his employer. Not You, Not me, and NOT THE STATE WHERE HE LIVES. Did that help. The way I understand the thread is, He's not breaking the state law. He's possibly breaking company policy. To bundle um together as one lump and become judgmental of this guys or anyones overall attitude toward the laws governing our states is a little hard line IMO. Like it or not. I bet at some point in your life you broke some rules or policy some where, or did that fiery chariot miss you too.
    How can this be between him and his employer if he refuses to tell his employer? If they don't know then they cannot discuss the consequences of his actions or any outcomes. The original poster decided to tell the whole world anonymously rather than tell his employer.

  12. #161
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    How can this be between him and his employer if he refuses to tell his employer? If they don't know then they cannot discuss the consequences of his actions or any outcomes. The original poster decided to tell the whole world anonymously rather than tell his employer.
    Sell it to someone else, I ain't buyin it, we're done here sir!

    Have it deleted I don't care...
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  13. #162
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
    I call BS. There's no way anyone would pour scotch over your grave at a good Irish funeral!

    Other than that though, an extraordinarily well articulated post, and right on the money.
    They might, if it's used Scotch!
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #163
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    Remember this, if you were to be killed at work or going to or from work your employer would send your widow a very nice arrangement of flowers and a sympathy card. Maybe!!
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  15. #164
    Member Array llongshot's Avatar
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    It still all boils down to.............as long as you take their money you agree to their terms!!! If you are that strongly opposed to their policy QUIT! If not, shut up and accept the consequences. Your problem is you know darn well that what you're doing is wrong or you wouldn't be here looking for support.

  16. #165
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    Remember this, if you were to be killed at work or going to or from work your employer would send your widow a very nice arrangement of flowers and a sympathy card. Maybe!!
    Any statistics as to how many have been killed at work in the last 5 or so years? A few, but the odds of getting struck by lightning are much greater.

    Would you lose your job over those odds? I wouldn't. If I take their money I obey their rules.

    Regards,
    Jerry

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