Yes, I carry at work -without permission.

This is a discussion on Yes, I carry at work -without permission. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Czampion I carry a full-sized concealed pistol day-in and day-out at my place of employment. If it was discovered that I carry ...

Page 5 of 25 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 362

Thread: Yes, I carry at work -without permission.

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    GA
    Posts
    864
    Quote Originally Posted by Czampion View Post
    I carry a full-sized concealed pistol day-in and day-out at my place of employment. If it was discovered that I carry at work I would be reprimanded (if not immediately fired) and later fired for unrealted reasons based on this institution's hatred of guns and those who carry them. Still, I carry.

    Who was it that decided I must place my personal security in the hands of my employer nine-hours-per-day when my employer's standards fall far short of my own? Is it not enough that I do my job and do it well? Is it not enough that I am professional and enhance the environment in which I work with a strong work ethic and engaging manner? It's no crime federally or locally for me to carry at work. I could not be criminally trespassed for carrying at work because I have every reason to be there; they depend on me!

    I am insulted that I am expected to leave an essential part of my life at home so as not to scare my fellow employees. It is those employees who may one day remain alive because someone like me was there to put up a real defense when the SHTF. Many people on this very site have expressed their feelings that it is dishonest for me to carry at work when my employer doesn't wish me to be armed. I never signed a form that flatly stated "I will not carry a gun at work." I never told my employer I wouldn't carry. I just DO carry. I've never drawn, fired or even told anyone at work that I carry a firearm. Accidental physical contact may one day reveal that something's hiding out under the shirt but no one will ever know for sure aside from an actual violent encounter in the workplace at which point I will not hesitate to stop an attacker.

    It makes me angry to hear folks here at the forums advising other law-abiding, card-carrying, like-minded, decent people to honor the wishes of their employer at all personal cost. That is not a community that supports the freedoms of its members. We must be wise in our choices but we must also learn to take responsibility for the life God has given us and not be cowed into total submission to the pseudo-authority of those who use our strength, time and services for financial gain. I like my boss but I'm glad he doesn't have the final say in my personal safety.
    As an employer, I would fire you on the spot. You seem to be one to disregard the rules of the one that is putting food on your table. If you do not like the rules, quit and go find other employment. Do not find other employment first. Just quit. I can never figure why people do not respect their employers. They have laid out the rules. You understood the rules. But yet you continue to violate them. Sad

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #62
    kpw
    kpw is offline
    VIP Member Array kpw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,150
    Quote Originally Posted by FlyboyLDB View Post
    As an employer, I would fire you on the spot. You seem to be one to disregard the rules of the one that is putting food on your table. If you do not like the rules, quit and go find other employment. Do not find other employment first. Just quit. I can never figure why people do not respect their employers. They have laid out the rules. You understood the rules. But yet you continue to violate them. Sad
    I'd suggest he's the one putting food on his table through his labors no matter who employs him. Statements like that could be a reason that employees may not respect their employers.
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  4. #63
    Member Array Czampion's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    106
    Previous replay stated: "As an employer, I would fire you on the spot. You seem to be one to disregard the rules of the one that is putting food on your table. If you do not like the rules, quit and go find other employment. Do not find other employment first. Just quit. I can never figure why people do not respect their employers. They have laid out the rules. You understood the rules. But yet you continue to violate them. Sad"

    I would say that I am the one putting food on my table. I am being compensated for work performed not recieving charity for showing up. I show respect for my employer by performing the work I am assigned (and more) with careful attention.

    Should I leave my personal faith/beliefs at home too because they do not fully conform to the ideals of the institution? Maybe I should also avoid carrying any reference to my family like photos in my wallet because (if exposed) it could give others the idea that I'm intolerant of other lifestyle alternatives... How many pieces of me can I leave at home and still have the will to live let alone work!

    Actually, they haven't "laid out the rules."

    Just quit, huh?

  5. #64
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Spartanburg, SC
    Posts
    785
    I can never figure why people do not respect their employers.
    It's not even a matter of respecting your employer. It's a matter of respecting PROPERTY RIGHTS. I am allowed and empowered to participate in any legal activity on my property and make any legal rules concerning the occupation of my property by others. Anyone else is afforded the same rights over property they own or control, including the OP.

    Is it wrong for a property owner to prevent gun carry on private/controlled property? NO - it's MY property and on it, what I say IS THE LAW - like it or not. Goes back to that "Castle" thing.

    If you feel that strongly about it - quit, or carry and take the consequences of your actions should you be caught in the act.

  6. #65
    kpw
    kpw is offline
    VIP Member Array kpw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,150
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Is it wrong for a property owner to prevent gun carry on private/controlled property? NO - it's MY property and on it, what I say IS THE LAW - like it or not. Goes back to that "Castle" thing.
    Although I don't really want to argue a property owners rights, there are limits to what you can lay down as law just because you own it. Even moreso if your an employer. Being a property owner gives you the right to ban weapons and in some states, that is the law. In others, my personal property remains mine, wether I'm on your property or not. You, as the property owner, can tell me to leave your property and, by law, I'd better.
    Last edited by kpw; August 25th, 2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason: fixed
    "In a republic this rule ought to be observed: that the majority should not have the predominant power." -
    -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

  7. #66
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    1,614
    KPW and Keltyke, I believe that you haven't fully read the post. The OP knows that they don't like guns, and made an assumption that he would be fired if he is discovered. Per the OP, they do NOT have an official policy stating no guns on the premises. It is not disrespecting the Employer or the property rights because NO POLICY HAS BEEN CONVEYED EITHER IN WRITING OR VERBALLY. He is concerned because knowing that they are anti gun, they would find another reason to fire him. That type of employer doesn't deserve respect.

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    1,104
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Is it wrong for a property owner to prevent gun carry on private/controlled property? NO - it's MY property and on it, what I say IS THE LAW - like it or not. Goes back to that "Castle" thing.
    I think you've missed the point that his employer is taking no action to prevent him from carrying, other than possibly having a written policy. If you don't want people carrying on your property then you have to exercise your rights by admitting people only after they have proved to your satisfaction that they are unarmed. Use a metal detector or a hired police officer or whatever method you choose. It's your property.

    If you choose to do nothing... well, you don't have some sort of magical right that exercises itself on your behalf. Have you forgotten that the OP has the legal right to carry on the property? He retains this right until he is 'trespassed' by the owner or someone with authority.

    You can't cancel his right to carry. Private property or not. You can only stop him from trespassing. It's up to you to determine if he is trespassing.

  9. #68
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    In a secured zone.
    Posts
    464
    Quote Originally Posted by Czampion View Post
    Who was it that decided I must place my personal security in the hands of my employer nine-hours-per-day when my employer's standards fall far short of my own? Is it not enough that I do my job and do it well? Is it not enough that I am professional and enhance the environment in which I work with a strong work ethic and engaging manner? It's no crime federally or locally for me to carry at work. I could not be criminally trespassed for carrying at work because I have every reason to be there; they depend on me!

    I am insulted that I am expected to leave an essential part of my life at home so as not to scare my fellow employees. It is those employees who may one day remain alive because someone like me was there to put up a real defense when the SHTF. Many people on this very site have expressed their feelings that it is dishonest for me to carry at work when my employer doesn't wish me to be armed. I never signed a form that flatly stated "I will not carry a gun at work." I never told my employer I wouldn't carry. I just DO carry. I've never drawn, fired or even told anyone at work that I carry a firearm. Accidental physical contact may one day reveal that something's hiding out under the shirt but no one will ever know for sure aside from an actual violent encounter in the workplace at which point I will not hesitate to stop an attacker.

    It makes me angry to hear folks here at the forums advising other law-abiding, card-carrying, like-minded, decent people to honor the wishes of their employer at all personal cost. That is not a community that supports the freedoms of its members. We must be wise in our choices but we must also learn to take responsibility for the life God has given us and not be cowed into total submission to the pseudo-authority of those who use our strength, time and services for financial gain. I like my boss but I'm glad he doesn't have the final say in my personal safety.
    You are the one who made teh decision. You agreed to follow their rules when you took the job and you break them. What would you do if they stopped paying you but expected you to work, would be ok with that? You say their security is inadequte but you took the job knowing it was? Did you ask your employer what their security was during the interview? If so and they informed you, would you have said sorry but I don't feel secure here and told them that they need to increase it to your "standards?" I see you state that they depend on you, well do you depend on them for income? I would say it is a mutually beneficial interdepency between you both. Could someone else fill your job? And please tell us your standards as I am curious to what they are.

    And what happens if you have a negligent discharge? I am sure your employers will be thankful that someone like you is there in case SHTF. I am glad that you will be there to kill the bad guys if things go wrong, but why not do it professionally as a soldier?

    I am willing to bet that you signed a form stating you received the company handbook and rules along with a statement to the effect you agreed to follow them, which includes not carrying a handgun as a rule you are expected to follow. As you stated God has given us this life and we are to be responsible for it, but what does God say about a person who gives their word and breaks it?

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array Thanis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    2,347
    I think you should respect work's policy, while on the clock.

    I don't believe they should have any control on what is located in my car (say my CC firearm while working or hunting rifle when I'm going after work). MI may be changing this soon, and employers may have no say.

    I know someone who found out his boss carried, yet had a no firearm policy for the employees (tow service). He began to carry immediately and found other work because late at night clearly a firearm was good to have. Came down to no respect for an employer who demands others place themselves in more risk then the employees. In addition, concern that there might be other motives.

    I found out later in life, that this was not that unusual. Many employers are armed but have no firearm policies for employees. I was told it has to do with insurance (or something like that). IDK for sure.
    NRA Member
    S&W 642 (no-lock) with .38 Spl +P 135 GR Gold GDHP
    Glock G31 & G33 with .357 Sig 125 GR. SXT Winchester Ranger

  11. #70
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    6,862
    Quote Originally Posted by kpw View Post
    I'd suggest he's the one putting food on his table through his labors no matter who employs him. Statements like that could be a reason that employees may not respect their employers.
    ++1. It takes both to complete the agreement. What's sad is that some employers just don't get it.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  12. #71
    Member Array JohnHenry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Willis, TX
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by 64zebra View Post
    only if these written policies state the language of the 30.06 signs, there is nothing in the Texas code for what the oral communication must be, no case law on this either
    I say this only as an example for folks in this position.....know what your state law says about places you can't carry, what notices/notifications are necessary, and what constitutes you being given the notification
    Oops! Better check again. In Texas (unfortunately still), written or oral (vague on this, as you correctly state, but an orientation presentation suffices) company policy can prohibit the carrying or possession of firearms on company property. Current efforts to change that law, at least for parking lots (as Oklahoma has done) have not yet succeeded. Employers in Texas are NOT required to use the 30.06 language for EMPLOYEES, only for visitors.
    __________________________________
    Harley rider
    Kimber CDP II Compact, SA XD SC40, Ruger LCP

    Favorites: "If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a soldier."
    Admiral Gary Roughead, CNO: "I never, ever, want to see my sailors or Marines in a fair fight."

  13. #72
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    North Georgia
    Posts
    6,862
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    As you stated God has given us this life and we are to be responsible for it, but what does God say about a person who gives their word and breaks it?
    He calls them a sinner, and tells them to ask him forgiveness and it shall be given. To the best of my knowledge that's all of us, you, me, him. I was taught that only one man was born on Earth without sin. guess who that was?
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  14. #73
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lafayette, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,166
    How does OP know that his employer is anti-gun.? Something has to have been said or indicated by some form of media that they don't want guns carried or he wouldn't be worried. If they haven't conveyed their wish for employees to not carry on the job, legally the worst that could happen is for employer or supervisor (considered employer rep) to tell him to remove gun from premises and don't bring it back. Without written or verbal instructions (direct, written policy, posting, etc) they would be legally wrong to fire him. Of course they can always play the "endangerment" card, but it would be hazy at best.

    Again, what is the basis of his worry? Makes a big difference in where he stands as far as his employment being jeopardized. Although I say he should follow the employer's wishes, several posters are correct in that those wishes needs to be conveyed direct by some means of communication.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  15. #74
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,174
    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    Without written or verbal instructions (direct, written policy, posting, etc) they would be legally wrong to fire him.
    In "At-will" states, a company may release someone for cause or no cause, just as a person may leave a company for any reason. So long as it's not a flagrant violation of "protected" reasons (ie, gender, disability that doesn't impact the work, etc), a company in an "At-will" state pretty much has a free hand.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  16. #75
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Rocky River, Ohio
    Posts
    908
    In Ohio:

    You don't need "permission", so long as:

    1. There is no statutory prohibition (Class D liquor license, government building, etc.)

    2. The premises aren't posted "No Guns".

    3. There is no policy in place against carrying.

    3 is more of a matter of trespass and or termination. They can tell you you can't carry if they find out. They can terminate you if you don't obey their verbal or written policies.

    During the first Gulf War I carried both in violation of company policy and state law. My boss for security had demonstrated a clear pattern of incompetence and disregard for the safety of employees by horrendously mishandling a series of bomb threats, especially in such a way as to expose dozens of people to a potential mass shooting. Immediately after the most blatant incident, I started bringing an attache case to work containing my M1911, a ballistic vest and extra magazines. Any risk of termination or prosecution was FAR outweighed by the need to defend myself (and classified information).

    I like to obey rules and the law. I like being alive even more.

Page 5 of 25 FirstFirst 12345678915 ... LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Boss Just Gave Me Permission To Carry At Work
    By Treo in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: April 8th, 2010, 10:04 PM
  2. Carry at work?
    By noonan in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: January 16th, 2010, 09:19 AM
  3. Do you carry a different gun at work?
    By ExactlyMyPoint in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: September 16th, 2008, 11:47 PM
  4. Teacher wants permission to carry gun in school WITH POLL
    By paramedic70002 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: September 20th, 2007, 03:42 PM
  5. How many here can and do carry at work?
    By ENSANE1970 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 114
    Last Post: August 29th, 2007, 01:59 AM

Search tags for this page

ask permission conceal carry work
,
ccw at work without permission
,
conceal carry permission at work
,
concealed carry place of employment alaska
,
find a job with ccw
,
georgia signage preventing concealed carry on private property
,
missouri ccw at work
,
no permit concealed carry at work georgia with bosses permission
,
permission to carry concealed weapon at work
,

security carry without permission

,
texas ccw at work
,
texas law about conceled carry in the workplace
,
texas law ccw at work
,
yes i carry
,

yesicarry

Click on a term to search for related topics.