"Dishonorable Discharge Question" - Page 4

"Dishonorable Discharge Question"

This is a discussion on "Dishonorable Discharge Question" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The answer has been posted earlier. The only way to get a Dishonorable Discharge is through a General Court-Martial. Surely this fellow would remember the ...

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  1. #46
    Member Array TBob's Avatar
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    The answer has been posted earlier. The only way to get a Dishonorable Discharge is through a General Court-Martial. Surely this fellow would remember the trial.

    Discharge types are recorded on a DD214, a copy of which the individual in question should obtain as soon as possible. Employers generally frown on anything but an Honorable, because all the others indicate problems with the applicant.

    What most folks don't realize, though, is that there's another block on the DD214, Block 26, that contains an informative alpha-numeric code. That code describes the circumstances of, or reason for, the discharge, and is especially interesting if the discharge is not Honorable. You can look these codes up on the Internet. They might indicate a particular situation under which one is discharged (e.g., drugs, misconduct, homosexuality, pregnancy, civil court conviction, AWOL, inaptitude, alcoholism, substandard performance, etc.) Potential employers should pay careful attention to what's in this block, but most have no idea that they should check it.

    Administratively there are two less than desirable discharges. These are given as nonjudicial punishment (NJP) through Article 15s (named for the UCMJ section), which I believe are called a Captain's Mast in the Navy. These don't involve trials, but are given at the discretion of the commander following set procedures and limitations on administrative actions that may be imposed (loss of rank, pay, restrictions to quarters/base/post, etc.) The subject of the Article 15 has specific rights, but their recourses are limited. One of those rights is to request a Court-Martial in lieu of NJP, but that's rarely chosen.

    The better of the two administrative discharges is the General Discharge. An individual who gets one of these generally performed satisfactorily but didn't meet the requirements for an Honorable Discharge. It does have negative repercussions on veterans' benefits and possibly future employment, so it isn't just a slap on the wrist. It may be upgraded to Honorable later, but there's no guarantee. A General Discharge is usually a clean and quick procedure. A one-time failure of a drug test would most likely result in one of these, as would homosexual conduct. I'm guessing that this discharge is the one that the individual in question received, as they may not have closely read all the paperwork they had to sign.

    More serious administrative discharge is an "Other Than Honorable" discharge. This indicates a serious issue during their service. An individual facing this discharge is entitled to a board to review the commander's decision, or they may waive the board. The "Other Than Honorable" discharge usually (and should) result in a Special Security File, which may prevent the individual from ever getting a security clearance again. The only times I ever gave these was to folks whom I wanted to court martial but the lawyers couldn't get their act together or some other circumstance put the court outcome in doubt. For example, one was a case where an NCO beat his wife badly but she wouldn't testify against him. Simple drug use probably wouldn't result in an OTH, but selling drugs could. I doubt that an individual would forget getting an "Other Than Honorable" as its very serious business.

    Commanders have wide latitude in handling disciplinary issues under their leadership. NJP is by far the most-use tool to get someone's attention when other leadership techniques prove ineffective. The intent is to rehabilitate and recover a valued service member, not to punish them. General and Other Than Honorable Discharges result when a person is considered unrehabilitatable for whatever reason, and are therefore discharged for the good of the service. These are serious situations, but fall far short of a Court-Martial conviction resulting in a Dishonorable Discharge, which carries the weight of a felony conviction in the civilian world.

    I hope this sheds some light on the discussion. The applicable sections of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) (USC Title 10, Subtitle A, Part II, Chapter 47) provide much greater detail. It makes great bedtime reading.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by DblTap View Post
    how could a person NOT remember something like that?
    Yup... I gotta go with that one too! But then again... maybe he can't remember because the drugs were REALLY good!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  3. #48
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    I had a friend that got an "other than honorable" and within 6 months after discharge it was changed to honorable.

  4. #49
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    Thanks to all who replied. I know I could always count on you guys/gals. My friend found his papers it states he had a "Summary Court Martial, so it wasn't dishonorable. In defense for my friend, that was the last time he smoked, it was a very bad experience for him. He has wised up. He is now on his way to pick up his first firearm, a
    SA XD40sc.

    Thanks again everyone.

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array Madcap_Magician's Avatar
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    You have to REALLY screw up to get a dishonorable discharge. Most drug-related discharges that I have seen have been general discharges under other-than-honorable circumstances.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erich1B View Post
    The Veterans Administration would not be able to answer this for him. In order to enroll in the VA healthcare system, he would need a copy of his DD214. I work for the VA.

    An earlier post provided a link to request a copy of a DD214 and this is the best place to start.
    I'll post it again, in a different format: How to Request Military Service Records or Prove Military Service (DD Form 214, DD-214, DD214

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casrep View Post
    Only a courts martial can award a BCD or DD. Any courts matial conviction is a FELONY. No CCP no guns.
    Not true. My dad got a bad conduct discharge way back when and he can still buy a gun

  8. #53
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fox2102 View Post
    Not true. My dad got a bad conduct discharge way back when and he can still buy a gun
    +1, A special court martial can only sentence to six months confinement and any convicton by a special court is considered a misdemeanor conviction.

    Even if awarded a Bad Conduct Discharge, a Special Court Martial conviction is not a bar to gun ownership

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ming View Post
    Hey, he failed a drug test. Maybe he doesn't even remember being in the Navy.

    Seriously, if it was just failing a drug test I'd be surprised if it resulted in a dishonorable discharge. Would probably warrant something less, unless it involved say distribution.
    Well, he was a sailor after all

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by jowgafist View Post
    "Summary Court Martial"
    I don't think that term has been used here by any of our experts.

    Experts?

    (I was never in the armed forces, can't help, but curious anyway)
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    I don't think that term has been used here by any of our experts.

    Experts?

    (I was never in the armed forces, can't help, but curious anyway)

    Summary Court-Martial
    Trial by summary court-martial provides a simple procedure for resolution of charges of relatively minor misconduct committed by enlisted members of the military. The summary court-martial consists of one individual, typically a judge advocate. That one officer acts both as prosecuting attorney and defense counsel. The maximum punishment at a summary court martial varies with the accused's paygrade. If the accused is in the pay grade of E-4 or below, he or she can be sentenced to 30 days of confinement, reduction to pay grade E-1, or restriction for 60 days. Punishments for servicemembers in paygrades E-5 and higher are similar, except that they can only be reduced one paygrade and cannot be confined.
    Military members who refuse Article 15 nonjudicial punishment can be referred for special court-martial. Usually this decision is made after the commanding officer consults with the local JAG commander. The accused must consent to trial by summary court-martial before the court can commence.
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  12. #57
    Senior Member Array Mardet65's Avatar
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    While serving in the Marine Corps I was always amazed by what was termed Office Hours. Generally it went like this; you are called before your Company Commander who says: Come in Lance Corporal, sit down PFC, get out Private!
    Ahhhhh, the Corp! Things were very simple then.
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