On the border...
This is a discussion on On the border... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; BG wet his pants.
Hmmmmm. Wonder if it's coincidence that "BG" is the abbreviation forBad Guy and Border Guard? Of course it's also the abbreviation ...
August 28th, 2009 07:38 AM
Hmmmmm. Wonder if it's coincidence that "BG" is the abbreviation forBad Guy and Border Guard? Of course it's also the abbreviation for "Bowling Green" (Ohio), my home town. Now, if I were a conspiracy theorist..................
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
August 28th, 2009 08:19 AM
My border experience back a few years was this.
Entering Ontario, Canada via Blue Water Bridge from Michigan, USA.
Border Guard starts asking questions about me and then not-my-wife-but-soon-to-be.
Asked me "How many guns do I "own".
Reply, "Where do I start?" S&W 9mm, .357, .22, Rossi .38spl, Titan .25, oh and I forgot, the Universal Arms .30 Carbine and an old 7mm Mauser.......
He stops me in mid sentence and declares "Just what do you do with those firearms?"
I reply, "Were I'm from, we hunt, mostly."
The look on his face was sheer terror as he sarcastically asked me "Just what do you hunt with a 9mm?"
By this time, I'm just about annoyed with this Cannuck as humanly possible to be so I stuck out my hands in a wide gesture and proclaimed, "In West Virginia we have rats, I'm talking, HUGE rats!"
Again, a priceless look on his face and I told him, "Dude, all my firearms are at my home over 500 miles away (couldn't translate that into Kilometers, let him do that). I really don't need to enter Canada, just here for the day, and if you like, please tell me how to turn around and go back to the United States!
He rolled his eyes and told me to proceed on into his country and have a nice visit.
"A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"
The Man Prayer. "Im a man, I can change, if I have to.....I guess!" ~ Red Green
August 28th, 2009 08:46 AM
You can get as smart as you want with the Canada or for that matter US boarder patrol agents but depending on how bad you want to get into Canada or back into the US its smart to just say yes mama or sir. They can and will send your car into the check area where they will have you turn your pockets inside out and proceed to take everything out of your rig. I have been lucky the 3 times I have crossed into Canada on Goose hunting trips to have only had to open the doors on my hunting trailer so they could poke there head inside.
August 28th, 2009 09:01 AM
I am on a gun forum with some border guards, I will ask if they can see any permit information.
August 28th, 2009 09:26 AM
Yup, and even tear your car down to the bolts. And guess what, they'll say "sorry about that", and you'll have to put your car back together. If they want, those guys can really screw up your weekend. For the most part, these guys and gals have NO sense of humor. Letting discretion be the better part of valor is the operative attitude.
You can get as smart as you want with the Canada or for that matter US boarder patrol agents but depending on how bad you want to get into Canada or back into the US its smart to just say yes mama or sir. They can and will send your car into the check area where they will have you turn your pockets inside out and proceed to take everything out of your rig.
I've worked with the Border Patrol on both sides of the US/Canadian border, and they take great delight in telling stories of what they've done with some of the smart a$$'s who give them a hard time.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
August 28th, 2009 09:53 AM
If I'm not carrying, I see no point in answering as it doesn't pertain to what they're trying to accomplish. The gun I have at home has nothing to do with my lack of gun crossing into a gun free country.
They can't take your right to own a firearm. They can ask with force and you can answer any way you choose.
August 28th, 2009 10:49 AM
You can try that, but you won't be happy with the detention, search, and hours and $$$ reassembling your car. They'll put it back together, but you won't be happy with the craftsmanship. On both sides of the border, your constitutional rights are suspended when you are inspected for entry.
Originally Posted by gasmitty
You have to declare any "weapons" when entering both the US and Canada. In fact, I keep my Spydeco on the seat next to me in plain view. No sense getting nailed on a concealed weapons charge at the border.
Sad but true.
NRA 2AF IDPA
Tactical Pistol Instructor
August 28th, 2009 11:02 AM
Guard: do you own firearms?
Guard: how many?
me: how much disk space you got on that computer?
seriously....if asked that I'd ask if that is a requirement to enter the country.....if I'm told yes then I tell 'em to pound sand and I'll go back to the U.S. for my vacation/trip
its none of their business but I know the gov't in Canada would like to track us right-wing extremists that enter their country.....no thanks....Yellowstone was close enough for me
Certified Glock Armorer
"I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
August 28th, 2009 11:13 AM
A lot of Americans are doing just that. I have to reside in Canada right now. (Do you have any idea what I had to go through just to be able to take a handgun in and out of the country and to a range? That's all you can legally do with a handgun in this country--unless, of course, you're a gang-banger.)
Yep, American tourism is way down in Canada now. It seems that only people with friends/relatives in Canada are visiting. And you have a Toronto mayor and Ontario premier who are laughing stocks in the US because they want a handgun ban. Doesn't help tourism, those idiots.
Click on this link for a laugh or a cry.
Toronto the Bad: BOYCOTT TORONTO
NRA 2AF IDPA
Tactical Pistol Instructor
August 28th, 2009 01:10 PM
It is the border guard's job to ask probing questions of people entering their country. I sure as hell hope that OUR border guard does the same thing of non citizens entering the US. The rapid-fire probing questions are less about them caring what the answer really is and more about HOW you answer the question. If they ask you a question that you should obviously know the answer to yet you skirt around the answer, stumble all over your answer or simply try and hide the answer... then that gives them reason to think that you are hiding something. People not being honest and trying to hide things throws up red flags. Reg flags when it comes to national security and border security is NOT a good thing. Why purposefully make their job any more difficult?
The best bet when going into another country and passing through security... just be polite and honest... there is really no reason not to be. I want OUR borders to be as secure as possible when outsiders are entering the states... I would expect nothing less from Canadians and Mexicans as well.
As to he or she staring at a computer screen while you give your answers... I seriously doubt (could be wrong but still doubt it) that they know every manufacturer, color, caliber, etc... of gun you have. People who are trying to hide things usually crack under pressure so border guards try and press when it comes to answering simple questions. They don't care about the answer (unless the answer means you are doing something illegal)... all they care about is how you answer and does how you respond throw up any red flags.
August 28th, 2009 01:43 PM
Brock is completely correct. I've spent most of my life crossing between the border (used to live in Niagara Falls). While you sure can have the opinion that it's none of their business... good luck telling them that. :)
I've been detained at the border before, for "random questioning". In retrospect they've all been on days when I've been having an awful day for one reason or another.. was cranky, was snarky, didn't feel like answering. It magnifies exponentially when you react that way to the border guard.
I'd rather have them be too thorough with me than not. They're doing a very important job, protecting our borders. And while *I* know I'm not a bad guy, they don't know that. I answer their questions, openly, honestly, no matter how unrelated or stupid I think the questions are. I use manners and get it over with quickly. And they let me through.
I'm gonna be going over the border again soon, first time with the CC permit. I'm curious to see how it goes.
August 28th, 2009 01:55 PM
Just me rambling during downtime at work...but I am curious how the "number of guns" and "makes and models" question would play out for the collectors out there. They would have to be prepared to lie to a BG and stick to it, which just sounds like a bad idea. What are they going to do, rattle off every piece in the collection? For a lot of collectors that is just not possible without having the books in front of them. Which means to get across with strait answers you need to have a story prepared, which means you have put thought into lying to get across a boarder, which means you are obviously a criminal. Right?
How many guns do you own?
Just 1 sir.
What kind is it?
Daisy VL sir.
What is your business in Canada?
Just coming across for some french fries and gravy sir.
Step out of the car son...
Guess I won't be going to Canada any time soon.
August 28th, 2009 02:14 PM
If I was a collector and asked that, I'd answer it honestly:
Originally Posted by BaserRonin
BG: How many guns do you have?
Me: I'm a collector, I think I have around X.
BG: That's a lot of guns
Me: It is, and they were all purchased lawfully and are sitting at home locked up safe right now.
August 28th, 2009 02:25 PM
I'm not sure why you would have to lie though Baser.
Guard: Do you have any weapons?
You: Not on me.
Guard: So you normally do have weapons on you... just not today?
You: Yes... back home I have a permit to carry concealed.
Guard: Just how many weapons do you have?
You: Dozens. It is hard to say since I'm a collector but definitely 45 or 50.
Guard: Can you name what weapons you own?
You: Not all of them because I have so many but I've got a Glock 19, SA XD40, Sig P229, Mossberg 500, several rifles, a few more shotguns, a couple of muzzle loaders, etc...
Guard: That is a lot of weapons... why do you have so many and what do you use them for.
You: I'm a collector and back home it is legal to collect and I also have a permit to carry but since I'm crossing the border today I did not bring any with me.
I don't see the conversation going much beyond that. He doesn't care why you have so many... he just wants to see how you respond. They are going to ask you the same question but in different ways to see how you answer. If you give one answer the first time and then a different answer the second time... well... why different answers to practically the same question? RED FLAG! Maybe you are hiding something. Let's pull over here and have a talk.
That is the reason *I* personally wouldn't concoct a story or fib just to get across. If you are honest with your answers then they have no reason to detain you for further questioning. If you are dishonest and they pick up on that (and trust me... they have their ways of picking up on it) then you just wasted their AND your time when all you really wanted to do was save time and get across the border faster in the first place.
A huge gun collection is nothing to hide... and of course they are going to ask you questions about it because it is something that you do (you collect guns) so you should be able to easily answer questions about your hobby.
They asked me what I was going to be doing in their country and I said (kinda tongue-in-cheek but truthful at the same time) see me some hockey. Well hello... me trying to be cheeky threw up a Red Flag. Oh yeah? they ask... what team(s) are you going to see play... knowing full well that since it is JULY hockey season is already over and if I say The Maple Leafs they know I'm lying and are gonna need to find out why. So I respond "we are going to Toronto and will be going to the hockey hall of fame... too bad the season is already over 'cause I would love to catch a Maple Leafs game but the HOF just inducted Al MacInnis and I've been dying to see the Stanley Cup!"
I could have made my border guard experience a lot less pleasant by trying to be funny or if I would have lied but because I was honest and I could answer their question quickly with detail and without stumbling over my response everything was ok.
I don't think just because you are a gun collector you have anything to hide. They will ask you about your guns because they know that is something you should be able to give a quick and honest answer about. There should be no reason for you to feel uncomfortable or nervous in your response... thus no red flags should be thrown. If you are trying to lie just to get across quicker (and lying makes people nervous) then they will probably pick up on that (maybe).
I suggest just being courteous and honest.
August 28th, 2009 02:34 PM
I have to agree with Muddy and other similar responses. While I absolutely agree that it is none of the Canadian government's business, it is, after all, their country that I am seeking permission to enter. Whether I give a simple answer, or tell them to mind their own business, my response will be directly related to how important it is to me to enter their country. As others have pointed out, you can make the process easy, or you can make it difficult --- the Canadians can deal with both (the same is true for entry into the U.S.). I have the right to tell them it isn't their business, but they equally have the right to tell me to go back where I came from and not enter their country.
Originally Posted by muddy
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne
IDPA Member & RSO, KSRA Life Member, NRA Life Member, NRA Firearms Instructor & RSO, KS CCH Instructor (www.thekasdg.com
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