Citation, reference, details, information, or thoughts
This is a discussion on Citation, reference, details, information, or thoughts within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have heard of instructors giving CHP classes advice based on an incident, which allegedly occurred somewhere in the upper midwest.
Can anyone provide a ...
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August 28th, 2009 05:34 PM
Citation, reference, details, information, or thoughts
I have heard of instructors giving CHP classes advice based on an incident, which allegedly occurred somewhere in the upper midwest.
Can anyone provide a citation or reference, (newspaper, book, court record, etc) or any details, or other information on a situation that went something like this:
The advise being given is:
A citizen (some accounts, a CHP holder; others, not) was stop while driving.
The LEO making the stop ask about weapons in the car.
The citizen acknowledges a firearm in the glove-box.
The LEO making the stop instructs the citizen to remove it, clear it and hand it to him.
A second LEO arrives on the scene just in time to walk up on the passenger's side as the citizen is removing the firearm from the glove-box, is unaware of the instructions from the first LEO, thinks the citizen is drawing on the first LEO, and shoots the citizen.
1) To never handle your firearm in the presence of an LEO.
2) If instructed to clear your weapon and give it to an LEO, to politely request that he allow you to assume an appropriate position and let the LEO retrieve the weapon.
What are your thoughts on this advice?
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
August 28th, 2009 05:49 PM
I'm not sure I understand the options in the poll, but I can tell you that if instructed by a LEO during a stop to remove my weapon and clear it and hand it to him I would politley tell him I would rather not. I would be happy to step out of the car, slowly, and have him remove it from my IWB holster.
"Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt
August 28th, 2009 05:49 PM
I have not read such a story, and I read all I can.
I wouldn't say that the scenario of which you speak is impossible, but it would seem to me that the two LEO' would be communicating at a traffic stop, expecially if one arrives late to the scene. OMO
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking in you poll, and why would a LEO ask me to clear my weapon? That seems pretty dangerous for the officer if I were not a GG.
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
August 28th, 2009 05:52 PM
I've never heard that story, but it sounds like one of the "it happened to a friend of a friend" stories that would go around the net.
I'd rather not be clearing my weapon in front of an LEO. If he wants me to hand it to him holstered then possibly, but I'd prefer he just get it himself while I wait at a distance.
Looking forward to seeing if the story is validated.
August 28th, 2009 06:21 PM
In my CC class the instructor advised that the first thing we should say is that we have a CC Permit and are in lawful possession of a firearm, how would you like to proceed? I'm going to admit that before this post I had always assumed that the LEO would 1) let me keep it on me or 2) Ask me to step outside so they could remove it.
It hadn't actually occurred to me that they may want me to remove it myself.
August 28th, 2009 07:06 PM
As a former LEO, I can't see any situation where an LEO would ask someone to clear their weapon before taking possession of it. If the LEO was uneasy about the weapon, why would he ask you to handle it.
"Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam HoustonRetired LEO Firearms Instructor NRA Life Member
August 28th, 2009 07:09 PM
Not a cop, did go to cop school, deal with cops daily.
Not a single cop I've acquainted myself with has ever thought it was a good idea to disarm a citizen that was not clearly a danger to self/others.
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
Probably the only home based FFL that doesn't do transfers.
August 28th, 2009 08:05 PM
Well, back when muscle cars ruled the road and my hair was as long as the felons I arrested, I would have never requested a citizen clear his weapon before I took possession of it.
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King
August 28th, 2009 09:23 PM
There is no way this took place.. another story to run around the net.. It never ends..
August 28th, 2009 10:36 PM
Police are, or ought to be, trained to separate the individual from the weapon, when possible. If a citizen is carrying on person, the LEO may have him sit in place with his hands on the wheel. If the gun is within reach, the LEO may ask him to exit the vehicle for the duration of the interview. Allowing an individual range of motion while a gun is nearby could be dangerous until positive identification as a friendly has been made. IMO this incident is very unlikely to ever have happened.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
August 30th, 2009 06:36 PM
Your scenario is a little strange but I voted NO on letting an LEO
take my legal loaded weapon from my person.
I served in the US Army Infantry and have had firearms training as a civilian also.
Letting anyone handle a loaded weapon without training is against
EVERY Principal of safe Firearms handling I have been taught.
How many street cops have been trained to clear a Makarov 9mm ,
or know that a SIG has a decocker but no manual safety?
Answer: Not enough that I would bet a life on it.
-SIG , it's What's for Dinner-
know your rights!http://www.handgunlaw.us
"If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
August 30th, 2009 06:59 PM
I doubt this has ever happened. I would also ask the LEO to remove the weapon as I'm uncomfortable touching it in his presence.
Also, "an LEO" is incorrect. "a LEO" is the only way this should be written but I'm a grammar nazi.
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
NRA Member / Ohio Conceal Carry Instructor
August 30th, 2009 07:31 PM
It shouldn't happen, but neither should what happened with JD and the cop trying to unholster his gun while he was still belted in the car.
August 30th, 2009 07:41 PM
During a "normal" traffic stop a LEO should never disarm a lawfully carrying citizen. In fact, a LEO should never even ask a lawfully carrying citizen to disarm.
Sig Sauer P229 9mm
Sig Sauer P238 .380
Colt XSE 1911 .45
August 30th, 2009 08:43 PM
Yup! What JB said!
Originally Posted by TX-JB
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
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