Question for 1911 guys - safety on or off?

This is a discussion on Question for 1911 guys - safety on or off? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Thumper When the defecation hits the ventilation what you practice (or don't practice) is what you'll do. Personally I would never carry ...

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Thread: Question for 1911 guys - safety on or off?

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    When the defecation hits the ventilation what you practice (or don't practice) is what you'll do. Personally I would never carry my 1911 with the safety disengaged.
    Ditto and agreed.

    Safety on and holstered.
    With _training_ comes familiarity and mental conditioning which with a 1911 results in draw, holster clearance, <SNICK!>...The safety is thumbed off with a _gross motor_ movement, followed by additional mental mathematics toward shoot or no shoot.

    The frame safety though for carry of a 1911, thanks to the guns other multiple safeties including the grip safety and in modern guns the firing pin safety too.

    IMHO the frame safety on a 1911 is the last and final mechanical safety opportunity before the handler is left to his/her own devices.

    - Janq exclusively carries a 1911
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  3. #62
    Member Array diverdown247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    When the defecation hits the ventilation what you practice (or don't practice) is what you'll do. Personally I would never carry my 1911 with the safety disengaged.


    Absolutely great statement!
    Never carry chambered w/ safety off on a 1911. Very bad idea...especially if you have never performed the full 1911 function tests to make sure that everything, including the half-cocked notch, work properly. My Springfield GI Champion had a failing half-cock notch.

  4. #63
    Member Array earlthegoat2's Avatar
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    Im not a big fan of condition zero.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by surprise View Post
    As the OP's question has been answered by a whole gaggle saying "cocked-n-locked", Id like to ask if 1911's fire without pulling the trigger?
    Many handguns have no safety and still never discharge without trigger pull.
    That's what a holsters job is. If your procedure is to flip off safety while drawing then the safety is only for not discharging in your holster. How exactly does that happen? I'm forced to assume that the robot group is split...something like 50/50 paranoid and the remainder just love to say C&L.
    The 1911 can be "tweaked" to an almost ridiculously low weight, short trigger pull. Without at least one of the designed safety devices it would not be hard to picture a holstered weapon discharging from being bumped, jarred or even simply by drawing it from the holster

    "Cocked and Locked" is indeed dogma to some. It happens to be a righteous dogma and if some repeat and practice it without knowing the detailed reasons then so be it. At least they practice it.

    The modern 1911 has several redundant safety devices that, in combination will not allow the pistol to be fired until a series of events take place...

    Weapon is loaded, charged, in full battery, hammer fully cocked, a proper grip is taken, frame safety is disengaged and trigger is pulled.

    Then and only then can a round be discharged. Why so many safeties? Because all things mechanical eventually fail. The odds of all failing at once is slim but conceivable so then the saying "the only safety you need is the one between your ears" proves to be vital if not a little too simplistic. I prefer an earlier post's version (para) The most important safety is the one between your ears.

    BTW anyone who carries a 1911 should be familiar with the mechanical operation and perform a function test daily. If any step of the test fails the pistol should be shelved until a qualified Smith can effect repairs.
    Last edited by luvmy40; September 3rd, 2009 at 03:46 PM.
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  6. #65
    Member Array Buckley's Avatar
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    Safety on, sir. Dry-fire, practice, your muscle memory will take over. Who was it that said, "You will not rise to the occasion, you will default to your level of training."?

  7. #66
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    I have carried 1911s in the past. I carried them cocked & locked. I am currently moving away from my 1911s and am going to start carrying an HK 45c. I am doing this because of the DA/SA mode on the HK. Having been at the range and in a simulated quick draw situation, there have been a couple of times that I have forgotten to swipe the safety off. Not good. Standing there for even just an extra split second until you figure out what has happened equals DEAD in a real life defensive situation. Obviously not enough training for this type of weapon.

    I thought about carrying the 1911 with the thumb safety off but never did due to everything I had previously read about the weapon.

    My question is with the newer Series 80 1911s, with the grip safety, the firing pin safety, the half-cock, the fact that the trigger needs to be pulled, and the fact that the gun is in a good quality holster, what type of "perfect storm" situation needs to arise for all these other safeties to be over-ridden and the gun to go off? What are the odds?

    Again, I'm not going to carry my 1911s with the thumb safety off. I'm just asking.

  8. #67
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    I would carry a Series 80 Condition 0 before I would a Series 70. FWIW, Series 80s don't have a half-cock notch in the traditional sense.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  9. #68
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I'm a former 1911 guy. Always carried chambered with the safety on. What's the real question here? Cocked and locked. What is there left to debate with a single action 1911?

  10. #69
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Anything other than Condition 1 (a round chambered, cocked, and manual safety on) is plain stupid. When feces occur, you wont have time to mess around.
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  11. #70
    Senior Member Array McPatrickClan's Avatar
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    OK, I am not advocating Condition 0, but what is the big difference between Condition 0 and an XD with a trigger job down to 4 lbs.?

    As I look at it, there is still the grip safety to defeat for the 1911 that is carried in Condition 0.

  12. #71
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by McPatrickClan View Post
    OK, I am not advocating Condition 0, but what is the big difference between Condition 0 and an XD with a trigger job down to 4 lbs.?

    As I look at it, there is still the grip safety to defeat for the 1911 that is carried in Condition 0.
    The XDs, Glocks etc., are striker fired, basically at "half cock" vs fully cocked.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

    "There is very little new, and the forgotten is constantly being rediscovered."
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  13. #72
    OD*
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    Quote Originally Posted by diverdown247 View Post
    My Springfield GI Champion had a failing half-cock notch.
    How old was your Springer? S.A. starting using a Series 80 "type" hammer a number of years ago, these hammers DO NOT have a conventional half cock notch but a 1/4 cock "shelf/ledge." You can place the pistol in the 1/4 cock position, pull the trigger and the hammer will fall, but without enough energy to detonate the primer. Many people don't know this and assume their pistol has failed the "half-cock test."
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

    "Diligentia Vis Celeritas"

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  14. #73
    Senior Member Array McPatrickClan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OD View Post
    The XDs, Glocks etc., are striker fired, basically at "half cock" vs fully cocked.
    So my XD is kind of a "single and a half action" trigger?

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by McPatrickClan View Post
    So my XD is kind of a "single and a half action" trigger?
    I suppose it could be called a "Safe Action" like the Glocks, it's neither a DA/DAO nor a SA. When you pull the trigger it finishes cocking the action and tripping the sear.
    "The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper

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  16. #75
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    On in my opinion. If the gun has a safety, then use it. Especially a SAO gun. Otherwise get a Glock or another DAO.

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