Question about SC/NC concealment

This is a discussion on Question about SC/NC concealment within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Question came up while travelling up to Raleigh for SC vs NCSU game. I am a passenger in the car. My weapon is on my ...

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Thread: Question about SC/NC concealment

  1. #1
    Member Array MWatson35's Avatar
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    Question about SC/NC concealment

    Question came up while travelling up to Raleigh for SC vs NCSU game.
    I am a passenger in the car. My weapon is on my person. Driver is pulled for speeding. Am I obligated to inform? My understanding is "no". I only need inform if asked for my ID. Friend on mine who carries disagrees.

    Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    My common sense says that since you were not the driver, you were not the one that broke the law, therefore, the LEO would not need to address you and you have no obligation to inform of your firearm.

    Now, if the LEO has some "suspicions" and asks for all passengers to dismount the vehicle, I would likely inform him/her of my firearm.

    The years that I lived and carried in Raleigh, I had "official" interactions with RPD twice, both for fender-benders and I informed the officer on both occassions.

    my 2 cents
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    In my past experience, I have been pulled over a couple of times as a passenger when the driver made some sort of traffic violation. I've also gotten pulled over twice when I had a passenger. In all of these instances, the LEO asked to see the ID of all of the passengers. And as I live in a must-inform state, any time I show an LEO my ID they get it with the CC permit at the same time.

    I suppose I would rather look a little awkward when the driver is pulled over and announce to the LEO "I'm the passenger, here is my ID and my CC permit, just wanted to let you know upfront" than not bring it up and stay quiet, and after the interaction has started, inform the LEO when he wants to talk to the rest of the passengers.

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    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    I have to disagree with those who say not to inform.

    I would definitely inform.

    However, in the state of NC, do NOT attempt to present your permit or firearm unless instructed to by an officer.

    Inform, then wait for his instructions.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

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    Member Array hdawson's Avatar
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    Cool

    Carrying to the stadium? Is that school property?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hdawson View Post
    Carrying to the stadium? Is that school property?
    As long as he leaves it concealed in the car before entering the stadium, I don't see a problem.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

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    3D
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    FWIW I'm an NC CCW resident - my understanding is that there is no requirement to inform LEO unless or until LEO addresses you directly, at which time you are obligated in NC to inform him/her of your CCW permit. . . . . HOWEVER DO NOT attempt to present CCW permit or drivers license until they are requested. We were taught to keep our hands in plain view.

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    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    FWIW I'm an NC CCW resident - my understanding is that there is no requirement to inform LEO unless or until LEO addresses you directly, at which time you are obligated in NC to inform him/her of your CCW permit. . . . . HOWEVER DO NOT attempt to present CCW permit or drivers license until they are requested. We were taught to keep our hands in plain view.
    Please show us the NC statute.

    I don't like to base personal firearms carry policy on an "understanding" on a internet discussion forum.

    Thanks.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

  10. #9
    3D
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    Please show us the NC statute.

    I don't like to base personal firearms carry policy on an "understanding" on a internet discussion forum.
    Defensive Arms-
    I stand corrected. You're absolutely right. I need to substantiate what I say. I'll look it up and post the NC statute.

    [Please note all my pink stars . . . I'll learn]___3D

  11. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    NC - a concealed cary permit holder must carry their ID and their permit at all times when conceal carrying. NC is a MUST INFORM state. You must inform any officer of the law when they address you or approach you in an official capacity.

    I don't have the statue here, this is just from my notes when I took the CC class.

    It also says here: "Informing Law Enforcement of Carry:
    The permit holder must carry the permit, together with valid identification, whenever carrying a concealed handgun, and is required to disclose to any law enforcement officer who addresses or approaches the permit holder that he or she is a permit holder and is carrying a concealed handgun." from usacarry.com.

    Here's the link, still can't find a particular statue number though.
    http://www.usacarry.com/north_caroli...formation.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    Please show us the NC statute.

    I don't like to base personal firearms carry policy on an "understanding" on a internet discussion forum.

    Thanks.
    Here is a link the NC Firearms Laws:

    http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf

    Below are sections applicable to this thread.

    N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.12A
    Any individual who has applied for and has been issued a concealed handgun permit
    must follow certain regulations concerning its use. Not only must the individual carry the
    permit along with proper identification whenever the handgun is being carried concealed,
    but he/she must also inform any law enforcement officer who approaches him/her that
    he/she is in possession of a permit and a concealed handgun. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-
    415.11(a) Failure to do so is a first offense infraction and subjects the permittee to
    payment of a fine of up to $100.00. However, in lieu of paying a fine for the first offense,
    the individual may choose to surrender his or her permit. Any subsequent offense shall be
    punishable as a Class 2 Misdemeanor. Any individual who violates any other standards for
    the carrying of a concealed handgun with a permit is guilty of a Class 2 Misdemeanor. Any
    person who has not been issued a valid permit but carries a concealed handgun, is guilty of
    committing a Class 2 Misdemeanor for the first offense, and any subsequent offenses are
    Class I Felonies. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.21(a-b)
    Although a person may have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, permittees are not
    authorized to carry the permitted weapon anywhere they desire. The weapon may not be
    carried in the following areas:
    1. any area prohibited by N.C.G.S. §§ 14-269.3, 14-269.4, 14-277.2, or 120-
    32.1. (school grounds, areas where alcohol is sold and consumed, state
    property, legislative buildings, and public gatherings, such as parades);
    2. any area prohibited by 18 USC § 922 or any other federal law;
    3. any law enforcement agency or correctional facility;
    4. a building housing only state or federal offices;
    5. an office of the state or federal government that is not located in a building
    exclusively occupied by the state or federal government;
    17
    6. a financial institution; or
    7. any premises, except state owned rest areas or stops along the highways, where
    notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a
    conspicuous notice, or statement by the person in legal possession or control
    of the premises.
    N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(c)
    Those individuals exempted from the prohibitions of carrying concealed weapons as set
    forth in Paragraph III. A. of this publication, are not prohibited from carrying a concealed
    weapon or handgun on property wherein a notice is posted prohibiting the carrying of a
    concealed handgun, unless otherwise prohibited by statute.
    North Carolina General Statute § 14-415.23 provides that no political subdivisions,
    boards, or agencies of the state nor any county, city, municipality, municipal corporation,
    town, township, village, nor any department or agency thereof, may enact ordinances, rules,
    or regulations concerning legally carrying a concealed handgun. A unit of local government
    may, however, adopt an ordinance to permit the posting of a prohibition against carrying
    a concealed handgun in local government buildings, their appurtenant premises, and parks.
    Effective June 21, 1996, a new Article 53B was enacted which provides that with
    certain exceptions, the field of firearms regulation is preempted from regulation by local
    governments. A county or municipality may regulate or prohibit the sale of firearms at a
    location only if there is a lawful, general, similar regulation or prohibition of other
    commercial activities at that location. A county or municipality may also regulate the
    transport, carrying, or possession of firearms by employees of the local unit of government
    in the course of their employment with that local unit of government. Municipalities or
    counties retain their authority to prohibit the possession of firearms in publicly-owned
    buildings or grounds, except that nothing would prohibit a person from storing a firearm
    within a motor vehicle while the vehicle is on these grounds or areas. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-
    409.40
    Any individual who has been issued a valid permit must notify the issuing sheriff of any
    permanent change of address within thirty (30) days. If the permit is lost or destroyed,
    he/she must notify the issuing sheriff of such loss. The permittee is then eligible to obtain
    a duplicate permit by submitting to the sheriff, a notarized statement that the permit was
    lost or destroyed and by paying the required duplicate permit fee. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-
    415.11(d)
    It is unlawful for the permittee to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol,
    or at any time while the permittee has remaining in his or her body, any alcohol, or a
    controlled substance previously consumed. However, a permittee does not violate this law
    18
    if a controlled substance in his or her blood was lawfully obtained and taken in
    therapeutically appropriate amounts. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(c)
    The sheriff of the county where the permit was issued or the sheriff of the county where
    the individual resides may revoke a permit, subsequent to a hearing, for any of the following
    reasons:
    1. Fraud, intentional or material misrepresentation in obtaining a permit;
    2. Misuse of a permit, including lending or giving a permit to another person,
    duplicating a permit, or using a permit with the intent to unlawfully cause
    harm to a person or property;
    3. The doing of an act or existence of a condition which would have been grounds
    for the denial of the permit by the sheriff;
    4. Violation of any terms governing the carrying of concealed handguns; or
    5. The applicant is adjudicated guilty, or receives a Prayer for Judgment
    Continued for a crime which would have disqualified the applicant from
    initially receiving a permit.
    N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.18
    A permittee may appeal the revocation, or non-renewal of a permit by petitioning a
    district court judge in the applicant’s residential district. The court’s determination will
    be based upon facts, law, and reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal.
    D. Transporting Weapons
    Given this general prohibition of carrying concealed weapons, individuals must be ever
    vigilant to ensure their particular situation cannot be construed as concealing a weapon,
    either on or about them, without being properly authorized to do so with a valid North
    Carolina, or recognized out-of-state concealed handgun permit. Therefore, the permittee's
    accessibility to the weapon is of prime importance. It is for these reasons, that when
    transporting a weapon in a vehicle, even greater care must be exercised to ensure that the
    weapon is not concealed, and within the ready access to an occupant of the vehicle. North
    Carolina law does not specifically address how to transport a weapon in an automobile.
    Therefore, the central question becomes: when is the weapon concealed and readily
    accessible to an occupant of an automobile? Obviously, a weapon would be concealed and
    readily accessible, and therefore in violation of North Carolina law, if it were placed in such
    areas of a vehicle as under the seat of the automobile; in a bag in the back seat; or in some
    other manner is covered or hidden within the easy reach of an occupant of the vehicle. It
    19
    is our recommendation that firearms should not be carried in a glove compartment
    regardless of whether the compartment is locked or not.
    While a weapon carried openly in an automobile would not be concealed, there are
    other problems specific to this method of carrying a weapon. The principal drawback, of
    course, is in the event of an individual being stopped by a law enforcement official, the
    officer may not readily know that individual's purpose and intent for carrying a weapon.
    As such, it is imperative that an individual immediately notify an officer of the presence of
    any weapon in the automobile, for the officer's and the vehicle's occupants' safety. Another
    obvious drawback is that a valuable weapon may be in plain view for potential thieves to see.
    The prohibition to carrying concealed weapons applies not only to handguns and other
    weapons commonly thought of as being easily hidden, but also to "long guns" as well.
    Therefore, shotguns and rifles concealed behind the seat of pickup trucks, and elsewhere
    in other vehicles, could similarly violate North Carolina law.
    As to those vehicles with no easily discernible trunk area (i.e., vans, etc.), the question
    arises on a factual determination of when the weapon is within ready and easy access to an
    occupant of the vehicle. If the weapon is concealed near, in close proximity to, or within
    the convenient control and access of an occupant, which would allow him/her to use the
    weapon quickly, then a fair probability exists that the occupant is in violation of the law.
    Therefore, care must be exercised by any occupant of any vehicle to ensure that weapons are
    securely locked away in as remote an area as possible, in relation to the passenger
    compartment of the vehicle. It is important to emphasize that these prohibitions apply to
    passengers, as well as drivers of any vehicle.
    E. Areas Where Weapons Are Prohibited
    1. Schools
    North Carolina General Statute § 14-269.2 provides that it is a Class I Felony
    for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol,
    or other firearm of any kind, on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular
    activity sponsored by a school. It is also a Class I Felony, for any person to
    cause, encourage, or aid a person who is less than 18 years old to possess or carry,
    whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, on
    educational property. This particular violation does not apply to BB guns, stun guns,
    air rifles, or air pistols.
    It is a Class G Felony for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or
    concealed, any dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine, or powerful explosive, on
    educational property, or to a curricular or extra-curricular activity sponsored by a
    school. This particular prohibition does not apply to fireworks. It is also a violation,
    20
    punishable as a Class G Felony, for any person to cause, encourage, or aid a person
    who is less than 18 years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any
    dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine, or powerful explosive, on educational
    property. Again, this particular violation does not apply to fireworks.
    It is a Class 1 Misdemeanor for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or
    concealed, any BB gun, stun gun, air rifle, air pistol, Bowie Knife, dirk, dagger,
    slingshot, loaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, metallic knuckles, razors and razor
    blades (except solely for personal shaving), fireworks, or any sharp pointed or edged
    instrument (except instructional supplies, un-altered nail files and clips, and tools used
    solely for the preparation of food, instruction, and maintenance on educational
    property). It is also a Class 1 Misdemeanor for any person to cause, encourage, or aid
    a person who is less than 18 years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed,
    any of these items on educational property.
    These prohibitions will apply in/on any school building or bus, school campus,
    grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used, or operated by
    any board of education or school board of trustees, or directors for the administration
    of any school.
    It is a misdemeanor, rather than a Class I Felony, for any person to possess or
    carry, whether openly or concealed, any gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind,
    on educational property or to a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by a
    school if:
    a. The person is not a student attending school on the educational
    property, or an employee employed by the school working on the
    educational property; and
    b. The person is not a student attending a curricular or extra-curricular
    activity sponsored by the school at which the student is enrolled, or an
    employee attending a curricular or extracurricular activity sponsored by
    the school at which the employee is working; and
    c. The firearm is not loaded, is in a motor vehicle, and is in a locked
    container or a locked firearm rack.
    The aforementioned prohibitions will not apply to:
    a. A weapon used solely for educational or school sanctioned ceremonial
    purposes, or used in a school approved program conducted under the
    supervision of an adult, whose supervision has been approved by the
    school authority;
    21
    b.
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  13. #12
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny View Post
    NC - a concealed cary permit holder must carry their ID and their permit at all times when conceal carrying. NC is a MUST INFORM state. You must inform any officer of the law when they address you or approach you in an official capacity.

    I don't have the statue here, this is just from my notes when I took the CC class.

    It also says here: "Informing Law Enforcement of Carry:
    The permit holder must carry the permit, together with valid identification, whenever carrying a concealed handgun, and is required to disclose to any law enforcement officer who addresses or approaches the permit holder that he or she is a permit holder and is carrying a concealed handgun." from usacarry.com.

    Here's the link, still can't find a particular statue number though.
    North Carolina Concealed Carry Permit Information
    Thanks, Bunny.

    However, the OP indicated that he was a PASSENGER in the stopped car, not the driver.

    So his legitimate question is essentially this:

    If he's a passenger carrying concealed in a car, and a police officer approaches and addresses ONLY the driver of the car---is he as a passenger also required to inform the officer he's carrying, even though the officer didn't approach or address him specifically?

    I don't claim to have a definite answer, but my bet would be that he's still required to inform. It would also be the wise thing to do IMO, even if it wasn't mandatory.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

  14. #13
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3D View Post
    Defensive Arms-
    I stand corrected. You're absolutely right. I need to substantiate what I say. I'll look it up and post the NC statute.

    [Please note all my pink stars . . . I'll learn]___3D
    No problem.

    Thanks!
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

  15. #14
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    See http://www.jus.state.nc.us/NCJA/ncfirearmslaws.pdf Page 16
    Not only must the individual carry the permit along with proper identification whenever the handgun is being carried concealed, but he/she must also inform any law enforcement officer who approaches him/her that he/she is in possession of a permit and a concealed handgun. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(a)
    IANAL but IMHO unless the officer speaks directly to the passenger no need to inform
    I carry a bible and a gun. Your Point?

    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")

  16. #15
    3D
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    As promised: NC Statute re disclosure to LEO

    § 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

    (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer.

    My earlier paraphrase was pretty close to that._______3D

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