Roanoke Times OP Ed - Page 2

Roanoke Times OP Ed

This is a discussion on Roanoke Times OP Ed within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Pioneer Liberals define open mindedness as everyone agreeing with them . If you do not agree with them, you are a hate-filled, ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    Liberals define open mindedness as everyone agreeing with them. If you do not agree with them, you are a hate-filled, right wing, reactionary, knuckle dragging, Neanderthal.
    But you forgot a key point regarding liberals. Once they deem you the aforementioned right-wing neanderthal, you are no longer worthy of the tolerance they demand from you. Since you are now sub-human, they are free to denigrate you, figuratively spit on you, slander you, call you any vile name in the book, beat you down at a town hall meeting and then bite your finger off...all guilt-free.

    Once you're granted "less-than" status, your ideas are void and they are no longer obligated to tolerate them or even acknowledge them. You are clearly "wrong-headed," and DESERVE the abuse they now heap on you. Classic Alinsky. They are experts at labeling you...'bigot,' 'extremist,' 'racist,' 'wingnut,' etc. Now the terms of the argument have shifted; you spend your time trying to argue that you're 'not' any of the above at the expense of the issue at hand. Now they don't have to spend any effort defending their positions, which are clearly indefensible 90% o' the time.

    Time to fight back a bit.


  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by av8er View Post
    It IS possible for a Liberal to be a card-carrying NRA member and a gun-rights advocate, isn't it?
    Is it possible to be all that and still find candidates to vote for who agree with it? Nobody has been able to definitively answer that for me. Just seems you would have to, at some point, compromise the RTKABA to vote for some folks. I'm not trying to lump Dem's and liberals into the same pile. We have some Conservative Dem's in NC, and I know there are some out west. Just seems hard to find. Dem and RTKABA seems to be able to coexist but not sure about liberal and RTKABA. I tend to see a big disconnect between people who carry the liberal label and politicians who carry it.

  3. #18
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    Just wondering, because I'm definitely a Liberal . . .

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by av8er View Post
    Just wondering, because I'm definitely a Liberal . . .
    Deleted...off topic.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    Does that mean that someone on this Forum, who claims to hate Liberals & Libertarians, is actually a Liberal.
    Gee, who could that be? It only oozes from every third sentence. Sort of like my disdain for elected autocrats. Yeah, well. It's liberally applied, at least.

    Hey, Dave? It's already Wednesday. Where's the head-in-sand article that Roanoke Times has got up its sleeves? I had expected it to grace the front pages with its presence by now. Tick tock ... tick tock ...
    Last edited by ccw9mm; September 10th, 2009 at 02:54 AM. Reason: gremmur
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #21
    Member Array kccad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holger View Post
    But you forgot a key point regarding liberals. Once they deem you the aforementioned right-wing neanderthal, you are no longer worthy of the tolerance they demand from you. Since you are now sub-human, they are free to denigrate you, figuratively spit on you, slander you, call you any vile name in the book, beat you down at a town hall meeting and then bite your finger off...all guilt-free.

    Once you're granted "less-than" status, your ideas are void and they are no longer obligated to tolerate them or even acknowledge them. You are clearly "wrong-headed," and DESERVE the abuse they now heap on you. Classic Alinsky. They are experts at labeling you...'bigot,' 'extremist,' 'racist,' 'wingnut,' etc. Now the terms of the argument have shifted; you spend your time trying to argue that you're 'not' any of the above at the expense of the issue at hand. Now they don't have to spend any effort defending their positions, which are clearly indefensible 90% o' the time.

    Time to fight back a bit.
    I have run across Liberals who don't use those tactics, but I understand the type of Liberals you are talking about, as I have encountered them as well. Your post is spot on. My 14 year-old son has started talking politics with friends, and I have been teaching him to look for the "signs" that you indicated in your post. It's frustrating to see these tactics used by people who debate on TV, no matter what side of the aisle they are on. It definately doesn't sway me to their side when I see them stoop that low.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pioneer View Post
    Liberals define open mindedness as everyone agreeing with them. If you do not agree with them, you are a hate-filled, right wing, reactionary, knuckle dragging, Neanderthal.

    It's not just the liberals that resort to attacking the person not the argumant.

    BTW -- check out:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=shr...gument&f=false

    Which I can't get to cut and paste. [sarcasm] But no one on this forum would ever use any of these dirty tricks.
    [/sarcasm]

    and

    Attack the Argument, Not the Person | Reasons To Believe

    Attack the Argument, Not the Person

    by Kenneth Richard Samples

    General George S. Patton, Jr.’s standing order during the Second World War was to “attack, attack, attack, and, if in doubt, attack again!” That approach certainly worked well for the U.S. Army in Europe during World War II. However, when it comes to logic and peacetime, the attack needs to be focused on the argument, not on the person.

    Informal fallacies—defects or errors in reasoning—cause arguments to break down. The ad hominem fallacy (argument against the person) occurs when one arguer presents his point and the second arguer ignores the point, instead attacking the character of his opponent. This tactic is not only personally offensive but also logically unacceptable because it violates two core principles of reasoning. First, a person has an intellectual responsibility to respond to the content of an argument. Second, the character attack itself is irrelevant to the person’s argument (whether or not it is true). Even morally flawed people can present sound arguments.

    The ad hominem fallacy comes in three identifiable varieties:

    abusive: directly denouncing character (old-fashioned name-calling).
    circumstantial: raising special circumstances in an attempt to discredit a person’s motives (also known as “poisoning the well”).
    tu quoque: accusing the other person of hypocrisy as an attempt to avoid personal criticism (tu quoque is Latin for “you too”).
    To criticize a person’s character may be appropriate—if the person’s character is the logical issue at hand. For example, jurors in a courtroom need to know if a witness has been found guilty of perjury in the past. Believability is closely connected to the issue of discerning truth.

    For dealing with ad hominem attacks, I offer two recommendations: (1) Don’t give in to the temptation to respond in the same abusive manner, and (2) help the arguer (and others) to see that the attack is logically irrelevant and then refocus attention on the argument at hand. Once the focus is back on arguments and not a person, listeners (even opponents) are likely to consider and be persuaded. The Christian’s goal is to present arguments shaped by sound logical and moral principles and to trust God to use them as He pleases.
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