Problem: College Carry - Page 2

Problem: College Carry

This is a discussion on Problem: College Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Call the local univeristy police dept, ask to speak to the Chief. Ask the questions that need to be asked, I did. P.S. I cannot ...

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 37

Thread: Problem: College Carry

  1. #16
    Member Array Datsun40146's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Lexington Ky
    Posts
    278
    Call the local univeristy police dept, ask to speak to the Chief. Ask the questions that need to be asked, I did.

    P.S. I cannot tell you how much I disagree with off body carry. There are just too many reasons and better, safer ways to carry.
    "The 280z, is more like a skittish, half broken bronco, that requires constant attention, challenges your driving ability and will literally ride the driver hard and put him away wet."
    -Hybridz.org


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Naugatuck, CT
    Posts
    2,406
    Quote Originally Posted by cdjspider View Post
    For some reason I keep going back and forth on what I think I should do. I back to thinking about in the backpack carry, maybe even wrap it in a black t-shirt on the bottom. that way there is 0% chance of anyone seeing it and I still would have reasonable easy access to it. As for getting my bag stolen, I feel there is more chance of my car getting broke into. Back when I was in school before I learned the ways about not being a sheep, I was still pretty paranoid about leaving my bag unattended and yes, I would even take it to the bathroom with me if I had to go. So if my bag is always in my control I think I would feel pretty comfortable carrying it that way.
    That's a pretty big IF, to my way of thinking. That said, the more important question is how fast can you get to your gun (1) if the gun is on the bottom of the pack and/or (2) is the backpack is on your back and not being carried in your hand.

    Both of these conditions will require several precious seconds to access the gun, unwrap the T-shirt and get the gun in your hand. I'm betting that condition 1 will take a minimum of 5-8 seconds and condition 2 will add another 5-8 seconds. Can you afford 10-15 seconds before you are actually armed?

    Just something to consider ...
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    somewhere
    Posts
    1,726
    You are at least lucky that you have no statutory restriction, but I'll echo what others have said - don't risk getting expelled.

    I'd also recommend against off-body carry (like in a backpack), because it's not under your direct control at all times. Besides, a stolen bag or backpack turns from a nuisance into a major incident if you carried a firearm in there.

  4. #19
    Member Array titleist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    459
    I'm with the guys who say "don't carry". That being said, if you choose to do so, I want you to be effective and enrolled at the same time. One option, that would not help if the guy happens to start in YOUR classroom, but may be effective if something develops slowly in a mass shooting situation, would be to get a backpack made by Maxpedition. They have a concealed openning on the back, between the pack and your back, where a holster can be velcroed on (think Galco purses). This would not be the quickest, but is pretty inconspicuous on a college campus.

    Good luck with the degree, don't get caught.

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member
    Array Xader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,560
    The school I recently graduated from is part of the Oregon University System. Per OUS policy, there is a gun-free "rule". Carry on campus is LEGAL with a CHL.

    My gun was in my possession and under my direct control at all times when I was on campus. Concealed means concealed. I was never made. I never needed to expose it.

    The point is, I did not feel that the school was capable of providing for my physical safety. Campus security was grossly understaffed and completely unarmed. It was a personal choice that I did not make lightly, but I felt the potential need was worth the risk.

    Side note: The Oregon Firearm Federation is currently challenging the OUSs policy in court on behalf of Jeff Maxwell, a 30-year-old Marine veteran who was expelled from Western Oregon University for legally carrying his firearm with a CHL. They filed a " Petition for Judicial Determination of Validity of Rule" on August 7th. The rule has also been confirmed to be illegal by the Oregon Attorney General and multiple members of the Legislature

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA
    Posts
    1,337
    How important is your college education? Only you can answer that. If it is as important as I believe you may want to ask the Chief of the Campus Police for guidelines. If you still are unable to carry a firearm you may want to consider Jang's option no. 5. That is a combination of 2 and 3. You carry a non-lethal weapon (pepper spray, stun gun, personal taser) or a good folding knife. At the same time get some training in some martial art (good exercise program). If you decide to get pepper spray do not get what you might find in a gunshop or sporting goods store. That stuff is watered down. Check out a police equipment supply dealer and get the same strength that the police carry. That is if there is no law against carrying pepper spray as there is in some cities in this country. Replace it at the begining of each school year to make sure it is fresh.

  7. #22
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    First off, Janq's post is hard to top! Very straightforward and a concise bottom line.

    So, since carrying on campus as a ccw permit holder will not violate any law and only risk expulsion, I will say...

    If you do decide to carry, I would not even consider any "off body" options as in carrying it in your book bag or something else. There are just too many unknown situations where you could be separated from your gun and inviting theft or discovery. There are a lot of snoops out in the world.

    On body deep concealment would be the only method I would consider.

    One option would be since you will be spending a considerable time in that environment, you might consider getting a much smaller pistol such as a Ruger LCP or a snub revolver. I pocket carry the Ruger LCP all the time and it is invisible!

    One other carry method I have used so much I wore my first one out and am now working on my second one. It is the Deep Concealment Shoulder Holster!

    Using that, you can carry any size handgun, all day long with extreme comfort. It is easily adjustable while it is being worn and I can carry for 20 hours straight and not even know I have a gun. I have carried Glock-23; 3" Ruger Speed Six .357 mag; Colt 1911; and Ruger SP-101 snub.

    Be aware, in almost all campus shooting scenario's you are going to have plenty of time to draw from a rig like that. And you are not sacrificing much speed at all. A federal agent who is a member here can draw and fire two on target at seven yards in under 2.5 sec from a rig like that. With practice and clothing modifications you can draw just as fast from an IWB Tuckable. Besides, you are looking for deep concealment here, not competition speed.

    Unlike most "belly band" type holsters which work poorly for most average body types in my opinion, this is worn high on the chest and the two shoulder straps carry and distribute the weight of the gun which is key for that all day 20 hour comfort. Plus position adjustments can be made easily without removing the rig from your body by simply stepping into a bathroom stall for privacy. I can even adjust it discretely without that level of privacy. It only takes a second to shift the gun position a little forward or back if you need.

    Note: When I attended college, it was before I had ccw, but in retrospect, there wasn't a single time where if I had been discretely carrying a small pistol that anyone would have noticed or had any reason to find out. People carry concealed with a little common sense for 20 - 30 years and never been made or outed! People seem to get too paranoid like it's tattoo'd on their forehead or something.

    You can get the Deep Concealment Shoulder Holster here.




    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #23
    PM
    PM is offline
    Senior Member Array PM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    670
    Quote Originally Posted by cdjspider View Post
    *side note* its legal to carry a concealed gun on campus if you have your cpl, but if caught at school I would be kicked out and loose my last chance of getting my college education.
    Me thinks you answered your own question; if you want the College education the gun is a no go!!

  9. #24
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Richmond VA
    Posts
    1,068
    All I can do is tell you what I did in a similar situation at an urban university where it was against State law to carry. I was trained in hand-to-hand combat. I carried a good knife in my pocket (already trained in the use of a knife). I carried a non-spring operated, telescoping baton (an Asp). I got training in, studied and practiced collapsed and extended baton techniques. I did not carry OC spray.

    I've never seen a civilian baton course. A crewmember on my rescue squad was a LEO and put me in contact with his trainer. Basically, I got private training. While I don't discourage anyone from carrying whatever they can legally carry for self-defense, I strongly encourage you to obtain real training in the use of whatever you choose to carry. I also encourage on-going practice and personal training with whatever you carry. IMO a book isn't enough.

    One night, after working late in the lab, on my way to the student lot where my car was parked (student lots were on the fringe of campus), I had to use my baton on a crackhead. There were no campus or city police in the area, and no campus security phone within reach. The guy was arrested and no charges were filed against me, although campus police did lecture me on the dangers of defending myself.

    If this is your only chance/choice for college, then don't blow it. Stay in school and get your degree. It's easy for others to tell you to risk being dismissed, every day, on the extremely low probability of a life-threatening encounter on campus (and yes, I am speaking from Virginia). As with any situation, you need to assess the risk, and plan accordingly.

    The decision to carry on campus in violation of school policy is very much the same as the decision to carry in the workplace in violation of company policy. If you carry and need to use it, then the fact that you are not in violation of state law is a huge comfort - there are always other schools or jobs. Defending yourself or others, successfully, kind of offsets the fact that you were carrying in violation of policy. If you carry and are discovered, the fact that you are not in violation of state law will be small consolation, if you are dismissed from school or a job for carrying a firearm in violation of policy; the moral high ground on carrying is lonely, when your everyday reality is that you are out of school or a job, and on record as being dismissed with prejudice for carrying a firearm in violation of policy.

    Whether or not the policy is wrong, the reality is that you are much more likely to be discovered carrying on a daily basis in a school environment (in and out of open school desks in plain view, auditorium seats, moving between classes, in crowded hallways and commons, surrounded by anti's), than you are to actually need your firearm on campus. Of course, if you find yourself in that unfortunate, very small minority who DO need your firearm on campus, the argument for carry is a compelling one. You have to decide what kind and how much of a risk you are willing to take while you are on campus.

    Good luck with school and your decision.
    Last edited by Tom357; September 18th, 2009 at 09:19 PM. Reason: clarification
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  10. #25
    Member Array fox2102's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    vestavia hills, AL
    Posts
    276
    Quote Originally Posted by cdjspider View Post
    Thanks for the good info so far guys, I think I'm leaning towards just leaving it in my car and buying a lock box, something like these (In Car Gun Safe).

    As for OC spray, that is something that I already carry and was planning to keep with me while at school. Its fairly small and fits nicely in my pocket, hell I usually just keep it one my key chain =)

    Also someone mentioned a knife and I was also considering that and it would be the perfect excuse to buy that subclaw i've been eyeing for the last month.

    Martial Arts is something I would love to do some training but they cost more than I can afford on unemployment. Also, It sounds like it would be a good way to further hurt my already injured arm.
    If you do decided to take martial arts later on stay away from any sport martial art. I would suggest budo taijutsu. This is what I take. It's a combat martail art that focuses on self defense and teacher everything from hand to hand combat, weapon disarms, and weapon uses. They train in everything from improvised weapons to sword to hand gun.

  11. #26
    Member Array MgoBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by Datsun40146 View Post
    MgoBlue, How was Spain? Missed you at KPDL last week.

    I agree with some of the advice given here and I'll add my own. As for force on force nothing will ever be the equalizer that a firearm is. Pepper Spray, Defensive blades, Situational awareness, and Martial arts all have there place but when you are a struggle for your LIFE, nothing will replace that firearm in some situations. My advice is this, carry your side arm and carry it deep when your in class. To the point that there should be 0 chance for your weapon to be revealed on campus. Then when your going out, change to a more quickly accessed carry rig. If you are still uncomfortable at least keep it in your glove box.
    Datsun40146, Spain was great, though I'm glad to be back driving on US interstates once more!

    On the comments regarding on-body or off-body concealment, the original poster will need to ask himself which he is most comfortable with, and which he believes will afford him: (1) a method of carry that assures his carrying will not be revealed, and (2) a method that will allow him to access his gun if it is needed. "Carrying" by having the gun in the car seems to me to be no different than not carrying. Deep concealment in the appendix area might work if the gun is the right size. Off body carrying in something like Dillion's Plan B Day Planner would take longer to access, but not really that long if it is in his bag or on his desk. Even if the gun is wrapped in a t-shirt in his bag, and if it takes say 10 seconds to access, that is still MUCH BETTER than not having the chance of getting a gun at all.

    I haven't seen any discussion here about ankle carry with a J-frame or one of those (ugh!) small .380 guns. This could also be a workable solution.

    Finally, I have to again state that there is no single college that one HAS to get one's degree from. I'd rather the original poster survived a bad scene and had to finish his education elsewhere, than learning of his (and other fellow students) demise at the hands of some bad guy with a gun. Just think about that.

  12. #27
    Member Array cdjspider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Lynden, WA
    Posts
    90
    I understand the concern against off the body carry with the backpack and how it may be possible for someone to snatch my bag if they catch me at the right moment, but I think there is a higher chance of me actually needing the gun than someone getting my bag off me. However, I do feel kinda hypocritical about the whole off body carry. I often tell my wife how bad an idea it would be to carry a gun in her purse, but I guess there is a difference in taking a purse vs a backpack off of someones back.

    I also realize that, yes I will be significantly slower in getting to my weapon if it should ever come to that but that 10 seconds sounds much better than being unarmed.

    I considered ankle carry but i think my gun is just a bit to big for that. For those that are wondering my only option for a carry gun is my Bersa Thunder 9mm uc. Given these specs you can probably see why I would have trouble concealing it on my slim frame.
    Overall length: 6.53 inches
    Width: 1.46 inches
    Height: 4.76 inches
    Weight: 23 ounces
    Barrel length: 3.25 inches
    If I had that thing on my ankle fully loaded it would feel like a lead weight on one leg.

    I did have one idea though that I'm surprised that no one mentioned yet. Even though it is a little pricey for me, what are your opinions of a smartcarry?

    Again, thank you for everyone's feedback!

  13. #28
    Moderator
    Array Bark'n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    West Central Missouri
    Posts
    9,916
    Smart carry for me is somewhat uncomfortable for a mid-full size gun. Especially when seated a good portion of the time. Or, standing and sitting frequently. I found myself constantly fiddling with it trying to get the gun to lay right. That may just be my body type and comfort level, but I got rid of my Smart Carry a long time ago. (In all fairness, a lot of people swear by them)

    Don't underestimate the one I posted. It's been used by many undercover narcotics officers and I've gone through two of them.

    I would venture to say with the proper shirt even your slim frame could conceal a DE .50 AE with satisfactory comfort.

    It really has to be tried to be appreciated, but certainly your call.

    When our swat team needed to do discreet courtroom security for a couple high profile cases, it was my method of concealment hands down.

    Fed wif a Sig (forum member) once posted a video here of all the gear and his draw speed in his nearly identical method of carry except his rig is an undershirt type rig. Just carries the gun in an identical place and gun pouch design. It was amazing.

    YMMV.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #29
    Member Array cdjspider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Lynden, WA
    Posts
    90
    If I did come up with the money to buy a new holster, I probably would take your advice Bark'n. It does look like its comfortable and easier to go to the bathroom in =), but I probably wont be able to get my hands on one till around christmas. Being unemployed and in school has its drawbacks. =(

  15. #30
    Member Array MgoBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    143
    Quote Originally Posted by cdjspider View Post
    I did have one idea though that I'm surprised that no one mentioned yet. Even though it is a little pricey for me, what are your opinions of a smartcarry?

    Again, thank you for everyone's feedback!
    While I didn't mention Smart Carry specifically, that was what I was referring to when I mentioned deep concealment in the appendix area. But, with your current gun, that's really not an option. However, you can always save up for a smaller gun and go that route when you are able.

    If you do go to an off body carry approach, ALWAYS be cognizant of whatever case your weapon is in. Not only to ensure that it is not taken, but (more important), to ensure that someone doesn't accidently discharge the dang thing. THAT could lead to a whole mess of trouble that you don't want nor need.

    I am glad to see students thinking about defensive measures prior to needing them. The typical college policy approach is to hope and pray nothing happens and, when it does happen, go along with whatever the bad guy wants. That's just not smart.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Carry on a WV College Campus
    By PaulG in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: January 24th, 2013, 02:49 PM
  2. Carry while in college?
    By Student Gun in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: October 24th, 2008, 05:56 PM
  3. What is the LAW for PA college carry?
    By rmxer85 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: February 19th, 2008, 08:39 PM
  4. College carry is out, what about leaving it in the car?
    By Fredw in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: June 9th, 2007, 01:31 AM
  5. College carry
    By Dumetre in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: September 12th, 2006, 11:34 PM