Problem: College Carry
This is a discussion on Problem: College Carry within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; As you could probably tell from the title I have a problem here. I going to be starting school next week and after looking at ...
September 18th, 2009 03:03 PM
Problem: College Carry
As you could probably tell from the title I have a problem here. I going to be starting school next week and after looking at the schools regulations I found out they do not let students or anyone besides police carry on campus, I'm not even sure if they have an armed security guard. Their plan for an incident of some kind is the whole lockdown thing which as everyone knows is basically locking the door and hoping who ever is out there goes somewhere else. The whole thing of hiding in a corner wonder who will get to you first, the bad guys or the cops doesn't sit well with me.
I dont know really what the best option is here so I'm turning to you guys for some advice. My gun is a little on the big side for normal concealed carry although I do carry it concealed all the time with no problem but I would consider it risky to do so there. I was thinking maybe keep it in the holster on the bottom of my book bag being that it would blend in even if someone saw inside it, its inside is black, holster is black and gun is black. Other than that there is locking it in the car which means it would be useless to me while at school and could be potentially be stolen from a car break in. Leaving it at home is just out of the question.
*side note* its legal to carry a concealed gun on campus if you have your cpl, but if caught at school I would be kicked out and loose my last chance of getting my college education.
So any ideas?
September 18th, 2009 03:03 PM
September 18th, 2009 03:27 PM
Illegally taking a gun to college is no way to go. you can get involved with like-minded students once enrolled and contribute to the ongoing dialogue about campus-carry. Also look-into permissible non-lethal protection and participate in any campus safety initiatives. Good luck.
September 18th, 2009 03:29 PM
"*side note* its legal to carry a concealed gun on campus if you have your cpl, but if caught at school I would be kicked out and loose my last chance of getting my college education."
This is the crux of the problem for most eligible to carry students and a decision I would advise against. While campus shootings do and can take place the good news is that they are rare. Little comfort I know to those who have died in one. I would carry OC spray for one thing. If you have not had any self-defense martial arts type training you might get some. I'm not talking about a 10 year black belt course. There are short hand-to-hand combat courses you can take. Also a good situational awareness avoidance technique course is invaluable.
DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.
Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
Utah Permit Certified Instructor
September 18th, 2009 03:35 PM
You have three bottom line options:
1) Carry a gun, and don't get caught doing so.
This means spending time and _thought_ as related to your school specific carry firearm AND auxiliary magazine/speed loader product.
It also means paying same attention to the manner in which you will _on body_ (!) carry these items as throughout your normal and expected, as well as abnormal/unexpected, daily activities.
Begin now practicing and training _at home_ the on body carry of your sidearm and magazine/speed loader. And that does not mean simply wearing a long shirt and checking a mirror to be sure your gun is obscured. There is more to 'deep cover' concealment that.
2) Carry a non-firearm defensive tool such as a blade, improvised weapon and/or OC/CS product, and don't get caught doing so.
There are literally a million different edged weapon options available. A subset of those will work good for concealed carry. An even smaller sub-set of that are specifically designed for deep cover carry & deployment. I'm not talking knives for cutting boxes, tape, and other general purpose use either. This knife should never see light of day and it's blade not ever touch anything but a sharpening stone every so often, as best case scenario.
Another option is to keep and carry, on body as well, an always under all circumstances concealed container of OC/CS aerosol product. Law enforcement size containers (2"+) will be too large for your purposes. There are specialized products out there to address this market. Seek them out and again at home practice.
As to improvised weapons I've made posts on this in the not so long ago past.
Reference my advisory as in this thread from January 2008; http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...rotection.html
3) Carry nothing at all and depend on your hand to hand combat skills, if any, along with your natural sense for detection of trouble so as to remove yourself from and/or avoid areas of danger as they occur.
Sign up for a course on H2H that is real world applicable. Not boxing and I know this will be controversial but not wrestling, MMA or Jiu-Jistu either.
Seek out Krav Maga or better yet Combat Krav Maga if you happen to be fortuntate enough to have either near by, and are affordable. If not look into Tae-Kwon Do, Karate, or Aikido. A little bit of knowledge and practice there will go a long way.
Additionally use the school gym to keep your body in some degree of fitness both by cardiovascular and by muscle strength as well as balance.
At the end of the day all three of the above options are choice items that are specific not to just to college students and persons traveling within non-permissive zones. But rather this is every man and every woman related basic stuff that is/should be thought of and addressed by everyone regardless of where they might go to school, work, live or whatever.
BTW you do have a fourth option...
That is the choice to do nothing at all and walk around hoping/praying/assuming/betting that nothing untoward will ever happen to you and that the skis will forever be blue and sunny over head. No need to bring an umbrella or hat because if and when trouble occurs you'll always have your trusty cell phone with full power battery and maximum signal reception so as to dial law enforcement who will respond in 2 seconds or less because one is almost always just around the corner. And when not there are those great see everything CCTV cameras that can record your assault and murder and be a great means to help your family track down the person who maimed or killed you.
So there it is, take your pick.
P.S. - I currently live in a five college community to which two university's and a college are amongst my normal weekly activities to visit be it crossing their grounds or specifically going to meet/have meetings with persons at said grounds.
What I do is adapt to the condition as planned or as they occur. In doing so I obey all federal, state, and local laws.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
September 18th, 2009 03:39 PM
1. Go to another school, where such expulsion doesn't occur; or
Originally Posted by cdjspider
2. Keep your gun off-campus while you're enrolled.
There don't seem to be other options.
You can certainly fight the lunacy behind expulsion, but that could take years, during which time you could be labeled and branded and ejected for being so involved in it. Education's a wonderful thing, sometimes, isn't it? It's just that we often learn something completely other than what we intended. Very often, those can be the more important lessons.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
September 18th, 2009 03:49 PM
Good info for you above.
I would caution you against carrying a pistol on an unfriendly campus. Yes, you are correct that it is legal here in Washington State, but many colleges have a policy expel you on the spot. Getting expelled is no fun, it is expensive (lost time and tuition), and puts a serious dent in your academic career.
Remember self defense is a mindset- not just a firearm.
The likely-hood of a mass shooter situation is quite small at any particular place and time. Petty thefts, mugging, alcohol related, and rapes are the big dangers on most college campuses. Colleges are required to post statistics on crime. Find a copy and see what sort of things you are likely to face. Then come up with a plan...
September 18th, 2009 03:49 PM
I got lucky in that my satellite campus did not follow their parent schools pro rape policies. I used a smart carry (think that's what it was called) that looks like a day planner; black zipped up leather or cloth package, you know what they look like. I carried it in my hand when I was walking around, and in class it went into the front pocket of my backpack. It appears that no one ever considered the idea I was carrying around anything other then a day planner.
I know this would be against your schools policy, so I only mention this because I like to share...
September 18th, 2009 04:18 PM
If you were to keep the gun at your hip, there'd be a greater chance of having your cover blown eventually.
My first choice would be deep concealment in a SmartCarry. Otherwise, you could try the Safepacker Holster inside your bag. If you keep the gun in your bag, then you need to be hyper-vigilant to have that bag with you at all times.
September 18th, 2009 04:32 PM
It depends on the state laws. Here in alabama it is not illegal to carry a concealed weapon on campus but the school bans them from the campus. If that's the case in your state then the most you have to worry about is getting kicked out of school. I personally do not carry at school. I leave it in the car but my campus is very very small
September 18th, 2009 05:02 PM
Thanks for the good info so far guys, I think I'm leaning towards just leaving it in my car and buying a lock box, something like these (In Car Gun Safe).
As for OC spray, that is something that I already carry and was planning to keep with me while at school. Its fairly small and fits nicely in my pocket, hell I usually just keep it one my key chain =)
Also someone mentioned a knife and I was also considering that and it would be the perfect excuse to buy that subclaw i've been eyeing for the last month.
Martial Arts is something I would love to do some training but they cost more than I can afford on unemployment. Also, It sounds like it would be a good way to further hurt my already injured arm.
September 18th, 2009 05:12 PM
September 18th, 2009 05:16 PM
I think some of the above advice is questionable. From your question and response, thus far, you appear to have a level head on your shoulders. You know you will not likely brandish a gun around the campus simply because someone cut in line in front of you at the registration counter. Right? So, the only time you would use your weapon would be in a life-or-death situation. Carrying a gun on your campus in WA is NOT illegal. So, if you are in a life-or-death situation (however rare that might be), you are being advised by some to not carry a gun and follow college policy. That's simply crazy advice! So what if you were expelled by your college after having to use your gun in a life-or-death situation? At least you would be around to enjoy the process of finding another university in which to complete your studies. No college is irreplaceable.
If you lived in a state where carrying on a college campus was illegal, then my advice would not hold. However, you are not in that situation. Carry discretely, practice often at the range, and do not talk about this to anyone at the school. I guarantee you that many of your fellow students (faculty, and staff) are doing similarly. VA Tech has changed this forever.
By the way, I am a university professor.
September 18th, 2009 05:51 PM
Remember that nearly everyone in college eventually forgets a bag somewhere or has one stolen. You can't always avoid it - will you bring all your gear with you every time you leave a class to go to the restroom?
I'm currently in school and don't carry - just not worth the risk.
September 18th, 2009 07:14 PM
MgoBlue, How was Spain? Missed you at KPDL last week.
I agree with some of the advice given here and I'll add my own. As for force on force nothing will ever be the equalizer that a firearm is. Pepper Spray, Defensive blades, Situational awareness, and Martial arts all have there place but when you are a struggle for your LIFE, nothing will replace that firearm in some situations. My advice is this, carry your side arm and carry it deep when your in class. To the point that there should be 0 chance for your weapon to be revealed on campus. Then when your going out, change to a more quickly accessed carry rig. If you are still uncomfortable at least keep it in your glove box.
"The 280z, is more like a skittish, half broken bronco, that requires constant attention, challenges your driving ability and will literally ride the driver hard and put him away wet."
September 18th, 2009 07:27 PM
For some reason I keep going back and forth on what I think I should do. I back to thinking about in the backpack carry, maybe even wrap it in a black t-shirt on the bottom. that way there is 0% chance of anyone seeing it and I still would have reasonable easy access to it. As for getting my bag stolen, I feel there is more chance of my car getting broke into. Back when I was in school before I learned the ways about not being a sheep, I was still pretty paranoid about leaving my bag unattended and yes, I would even take it to the bathroom with me if I had to go. So if my bag is always in my control I think I would feel pretty comfortable carrying it that way.
Also, I was considering sending an anonymous email asking about licensed people having a concealed gun and explain the proccess a person has to go through to get licensed to carry sense they do not really touch the subject in their rules and whatnot. Would this be a good or bad idea?
I just want to thank everyone again, talking it out really helps with the decision process and figuring out the best way to go about this.
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