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How many bullets are enough?

12K views 98 replies 64 participants last post by  kellyII 
#1 ·
I am confused. I have read that most firearms encounters occur between 2-3 meters, last 2-3 seconds, and involve 2-3 shots being fired. Why then do I read so much on this forum about topping off the mag after chambering a round, carrying extra mags, etc. My Sig will allow 15+1, so if I carry two extra mags, I will have 45-46 rounds. Why do so many consider this the right thing to do with CC?

Thanks for your advice and opinions. I am learning a great deal from all of you.
 
#2 ·
Because 'most' doesn't cover 'all.' Stuff happens. Murphy is alive and well. One day someone will find out that the 5-shot snubby just ran dry when they realize that the BG in front of him/her had 2 accomplices.

Also, magazines fail. Or, get ejected in hand-to-hand. Then, what?
 
#3 ·
Just as miklcolt45 said a quick encounter with only 2-3 rounds being shot may be more likely but there is also a chance you will have to defend your self again more than one person. It kinda fits the old saying about carrying a gun "Its better to carry it and never need it, than need it and not have it."
 
#34 ·
Its like I tell people when they say to me, "why do you own a gun for personal protection, you'll never be in a situation like that"?

AND I say to them, "do you own a fire extiguisher for your house?

AND they say "of course."

AND I say "why, your house is Probably never going to catch on fire".

WASHINGTON DID’NT USE HIS RIGHT TO FREE SPEECH TO DEFEAT THE BRITISH, HE SHOT THEM

"To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
 
#4 ·
The law of dimishing returns applies here. If carrying 5 rounds is enough to handle 90% of threats, then carrying 10 rounds does not double the number of threats you are equipped to deal with...it might equip you to then deal with 95% of threats. in other words, doubling your ammo provides perhaps a 5% benefit. Doubling ammo again to 20 rounds does not provide even another 5% increase, but perhaps 2 or 3%. The guys are right, murphy is here to stay...stuff happens...but you have to figure what percentage of the threats you are going to worry about. Where does the cost in practicality and convenience begin to encroach on your ability to enjoy life? Me? I rarely carry an extra mag. I figure the odds needing all of my 10+1 are small enough that the odds of needing more aren't enough to inconvenience myself...
 
#5 ·
There are two issues here: how many rounds are enough, and how many magazines are enough.

Magazines are the most common point of failure for a semi-auto. Feed lips get bent, baseplates fall off, etc. No matter how many rounds your pistol holds, an additional magazine or two is a good idea.

As for the number of rounds, the fundamental truth is that pistol bullets suck. Their terminal effect and ability to physically incapacitate an attacker just isn't that great. Repeated shots may be necessary to bring about rapid incapacitation of an attacker. Many instructors today are teaching students to fire in bursts of 3-5 rounds, rather than single shots or pairs. Seen in these terms, a 15 round magazine becomes a 3-4 burst magazine. Combine this with multiple attackers and the ammunition capacity doesn't seem that generous.

Another reason to carry an extra mag or two is for the second gunfight. The odds of any of us having to use a gun on a given day are, thankfully, pretty low. However, once you get into a gunfight, the odds of having to use your gun again shortly thereafter go way up. After you've successfully defended yourself with a firearm, the assailant's friends, relatives, or partners in crime may take exception to what you did. You don't want to face this with a depleted magazine, which is why most instructors teach a reload as part of the after-action drill. This, obviously, is going to require an additional magazine.

I carry 13+1 rounds in the gun, plus two extra magazines, for a total of 40 rounds. Do I expect to use all 40? No. But having two extra magazines on my belt gives me a chance to use one fix a malfunction or replace the mag in the gun after I shoot it dry and still be able to replace a depleted magazine after the first fight.
 
#6 ·
carry as much ammo as you can get away with and keep shooting until your attacker is dead (stopped)
 
#8 ·
In my view this will depend on your level of perceived comfort. When I routinely carried a semi-auto I would always carry at full capacity. Granted, I seldom carried my extra magazine simply because I became too complacent and I didn’t want the extra bulk. There are plenty of cases where a LEO was killed days before his/her retirement because of this. Even now, I carry a snub and I have to force myself to carry my extra reload. Either way, it’s really up to you, your discipline and the inherit trade-offs’.

P.S. I just returned from being out with my dogs and I didn't take my speed strip ~
Regards,
 
#9 ·
Blackeagle said it best.

The only time you can have too much ammo is when you are drowning or on fire.:hand5:

In addition to street crime, there is also the consideration of terrorism - the active shooter scenario. If you are unlucky enough to bump into a few al-Quaeda nutcases with AK-47s at your local mall, you are going to feel mighty undergunned - even with a high-cap pistol and a spare mag or two. You will need as much firepower as you can carry to get you and yours out of there...

I carry 11 rounds in my Glock 26, plus a spare 15 round Glock 19 magazine. I'd carry more if I could!
 
#11 ·
I carry one addtl mag for my primary and rarely a mag fo my BUG. Main reason magazine failure can happen. Secondary reason tactical reload or necessity reload if rounds are needed, if you did everything right in a situation protected yourself and got cover, it would stink to check you gun and find the mag empty...

Also many BG's travel in groups...

it is not an inconveinence to carry an extra or even 2 single stack mags, fits nicely in an old wallet/eye glass case etc... in front or back pocket depending on caliber.

Personally I would carry a BUG over an extra mag. Also with my 15+1, I don't always carry spare mag...
 
#13 ·
Having faced down three attackers with only a five shot revolver and no reload, I can tell you the expirience wasn't very comforting.

The attackers in question were stray, Pit Bull appearing, dogs. That, and other life expiriences has led me to carrying at least two guns, three if I'm carrying a revolver as a Primary Gun, and at least two reloads for two guns.

Biker
 
#15 ·
In my time in the Army, I never felt worried because I had too much ammo (even when toting an M60). As a civilian, I've never worried that I was overdoing it by having an extra mag or two.

We are, however, bound by practical concerns, such as comfort and concealability. My EDC is a compact 1911, with a 7+1 loading. I typically carry an extra 8-round mag. When I pocket carry my P-3AT, I load 6+1 with an extra 6-round mag. If I carry my Detective Special, I load 6 rounds and carry a 6-round speed loader. If I've got a BHP, it's 15+1 with an extra 15. Having at least one reload is an ingrained practice.

I don't expect to need the reloads, but I sacrifice nothing by carrying them, and in the very rare circumstance that I might have to use my handgun at all, they might make a difference.

Unlike LEOs and active military, I don't have to put myself in harm's way as a normal practice. Instead, I try to avoid hazardous conflicts. The best defense is to be somewhere else. If I knew that a conflict was likely and unavoidable, I certainly wouldn't choose a handgun as a primary weapon. I'd grab an AR w/ lots of extra mags, plus a 12-gauge, maybe a Barrett .50, and I'd probably wish I had that M60!
 
#18 ·
Terminl Balistics as viewed from a morgue.



+1 Beautifully said :congrats:

I am not a doctor or a lawyer but I do talk to medical people all the time. After reading Terminal ballistics as viewed in a morgue, I have started asking some of the medical professionals I know about what they see when they treat gunshot wounds (Damage specific without violating HIPA) and they seem to agree with deadmeat2. I shoot center mass, that puts my rounds through clothes (possibly a jacket) and then through the sternum. If I change EDC rounds it will be from .45 1911 to a 10mm 1911 since that is the weapon my hands know best. Short of a vest the 10mm will punch through clothes, sternum, ribs, and most other things to reach center mass without being redirected by bone. Also this will give me a few more rounds that its counterpart in .45 as a bonus. The down side of this change is that I do not know of a 3in barrel version of a 10mm 1911 so this will probably be a winter carry/car gun.

Or more specifically I want the maximum amount of stopping power in those 2-3 rounds. With 2 8rd backup mags on me.
 
#17 ·
Equate it to this..."I dont know how many of you guys it takes to kick my ass, but I know many your gonna use."-Ron White.
The more ammo the marrier.
 
#37 ·
I just couldn't help it..what ever happened to
"You die first, get it? Your friends might get me in a rush, but not before I make your head into a canoe, you understand me?"-Wyatt Earp.Tombstone..

but i guess i do have to yield to the majority. I asked a similar question and the how may spares thread and its overwhelming how many feel a pocket 5-8 rounds is asking for trouble. But its got to be better than nothing. again though, the masses have convinced me, bullets defiantly fall into the if one is good, too is better, category.
 
#19 ·
I now carry my Glock-36 daily...6 + 1, an extra mag makes me feel pretty comfortable for the places I go and what 'I think' I might encounter.
If I have to use lethal force, a few 'well-placed' rounds are better than 14 mags of 'pray and spray'...OMO

Stay armed...get training and practice (it'll beat five extra mags anytime)...stay safe!
 
#21 ·
I am confused.

How many bullets is enough?
One more than absolutely needed. How many will that be? Dunno. My crystal ball was issued DOA, same as yours.

I have read that most firearms encounters occur ...
Blah, blah, blah.

What happens to you, next time, won't be average. It'll be whatever it is. You'll either prepared for that or not. It's that simple.

So, you get to choose the right mix that works for you, within the confines of reliability, size, weight, convenience, cost, comfort, and so on. Everything has a cost. And everyone's going to value the mix differently.

Why then do I read so much on this forum about topping off the mag after chambering a round, carrying extra mags, etc. My Sig will allow 15+1, so if I carry two extra mags, I will have 45-46 rounds. Why do so many consider this the right thing to do with CC?
IMO, basically: if you've got the ability to carry one more round, then doing so ain't gonna kill you. While the flipside might be true: not having it just might.

It's also not strictly about round count. What if your gun jams; what if your magazine fails; what if ... The point is, you double-up or triple-up the guards against failure, so that you won't get caught with just your finger and a phone when the chips are down. You don't know for certain whether a failure of equipment will occur, or whether you'll drop a magazine, or whatever.
 
#22 ·
I think it's pretty well been said. Carry what you feel comfortable with, and then add one more mag. Most auto accidents are minor fender benders. The rest are somewhere beyond that. If you're in a "fender bender" confrontation one mag will probably do. If, God forbid, you're in a "nine car pile up" type encounter one mag ain't going to get the job done.
 
#23 ·
After 40 years of showers and sleeping in clean sheets, I still dream the same dream. I'm in the jungle and I ran outa ammo. I still wake up sweating and scared to death. Scared because I RAN OUT of AMMO.

Every morning these days I dress with two: J frame 642 and SP101 and two speed strips. (Before 9-11 just one, a J frame ,was needed to make me comfortable). Every morning I ask myself if that is enuff.....odds are "yes". Yet it is still an arguement. Good luck answering that question for yourself.
 
#39 ·
After 40 years of showers and sleeping in clean sheets, I still dream the same dream. I'm in the jungle and I ran outa ammo. I still wake up sweating and scared to death. Scared because I RAN OUT of AMMO.
...QUOTE]

41 years this August for me. Similar dream, but involves not having a gun at all. Some things don't completely go away, like the habit of shaking out shoes before putting them on, not drinking tap water or using ice, looking up when entering a room for the first time, etc.
 
#25 ·
i'm sorry, but why would you even need to ask someone an answer to this question?? what if a BG has a gun and a couple extra mags? what are you going to do with 3 bullets? pray for a headshot? ha.

it's like my dad says to everyone who tells him "chances are you'll never come across an instance where you'll need to use your gun, let alone an extra mag" - he always replies, "i'd rather have an extra mag and never use it, than to need an extra mag and not have one..."

i'll be honest- i don't carry an extra mag on me. i have an extra one in the car, along with a box of 50 in my trunk, but nothin on me personally except my 12+1 .40.....:comeandgetsome:
 
#26 ·
I'm comfortable with a 5-shot revolver with no extra ammo. Actually, I'm comfortable not carrying a gun at all. In my life circumstances, the chance I'll need to fire a gun in self defense is very low. The chance I'll need to reload is even lower. The cheeseburgers I eat are a greater threat to my health than bad guys trying to get me.
 
#29 ·
Quite an interesting outlook on your life that you've stated.

Someone once passed this little observation along to me: "If something bad happened to someone else, it can happen to you. Don't exist in a state of denial. Just because we don't want to face an attacker tomorrow does not mean it will not happen."

An instructor once said this to me in regards to "Warrior Spirit": "I know what Warrior Spirit is. I know what people who have it look like. I cannot give it to you, you cannot buy it, and without it you are very likely to fail. Without it you are very likely to think carrying your gun is a burden, will get you in trouble, or won't be needed..

For me that kind of says it all.
 
#27 ·
Unfortunately, BGs do not consult statistics to make sure that you receive an average SD encounter. And unless you have ice water running through your veins, when the SHTF you will pull the trigger on that BG until the gun stops firing. You will use it until the threat stops.

If there is anyone else around, like extra BGs or remaining perceived threat, you will want that extra mag.
 
#28 ·
Its just a level of preparedness that I have been doing most of my life. IMO, It's always better to error on the side of caution, just apply the philosophy as needed. That, and I'd rather have to many, then not enough.:hand10:
 
#30 ·
I think you just need to find a balance you can live with. There are so many ways you could find yourself in a SHTF scenario - and most of the ones that come to my mind would not find me using the pistol I have with me. Perhaps that's because I've experienced quite a few already: tornado ripping my home apart, car losing a wheel going 80mph, boat tipping over while somewhere in the ocean, bicycle going one way while I end up another... As well as the major BG situation I've personally experienced: my home being robbed while I was in it. Not feeling ready to face somebody who wasn't aware I was in the home, I called 911 while being very quiet, and the BG left immediately after hearing my cat knock something over in another room. I didn't have a firearm then but even if I did I'd still do it the same way... if they had approached me it'd be a whole different tale, I know this.

I know that it likely comes across as such because it's the topic of the forums, but it's easy to get the impression here that the only SHTF situation people here are prepared for is a BG trying to harm you/loved ones.

So I suppose I take the "Swiss Army Knife" approach.. be prepared for everything in smallish doses... and have a backup kit in my home and car for the Big Problems. And realise no matter WHAT I do, it may never be enough.
 
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