uneducated friends and ridiculous stats....

uneducated friends and ridiculous stats....

This is a discussion on uneducated friends and ridiculous stats.... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well tonight I went to a local pub/bar with a few friends that I haven't seen in a while. Well it was all stories and ...

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Thread: uneducated friends and ridiculous stats....

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array chrise2004's Avatar
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    uneducated friends and ridiculous stats....

    Well tonight I went to a local pub/bar with a few friends that I haven't seen in a while. Well it was all stories and how we've all been kinda discussions ect. Well next thing you know it comes around to guns and gun laws. I live in a county that is very conservative mostly republicans.

    Well one friend of mine (the guy went to U of I and then got a master's in architecture at Penn. University, so he's a smart guy) starts telling me he's against gun's and carrying. I ask him why and he says "because 80% of all gun carriers end up shooting themselves when involved in a gun fight".....my mouth just dropped.... I asked him where he got this statistic and of course he just says he hears it. I just look at my g/f and she knows I'm about ready to go insane.

    Then he asks me why i choose to carry. My mind fills with a billion of thoughts on why and I cant' believe he's even questioning this....so i proceed to explain that unfortunately i don't know when a bad guy is going to harm me and my family and I'm not willing to wait on the cops to come and in my rural city/county, it would be minutes upon minutes until they would be there. He just counters with what could i try to do.......again my mind just wonders how he has a masters degree........

    I just give an example of any one of the shootings that have happened recently and "what if" a CCW holder was there and had a gun and could have saved innocent lives....of course he just says "well 80% of ccw permit holders end up shooting themselves" finally i just had enough and said well just don't come knocking on my door when your family is being held at knife point and you cant' do anything to protect yourself or your loved ones that's your opinion but don't infringe on my rights!

    Brothers and sisters give me your thoughts/idea's?

    Thanks in advance everyone.
    -Chris
    Glock 27,Hi-Point .380, S&W 3913, RIA 5" Tactical

    NRA Member/Supporter

    "Government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem." - President Ronald Reagan


  2. #2
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    The guy's an idiot! Albeit, an educated idiot, but an idiot none the less!

    Can't argue with those people and rarely do I even bother trying. Unless I'm feeling particularly "spunky!"
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  3. #3
    Member Array Crucible's Avatar
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    88.4% of all statistics are made up on the spot :D

    C-

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array kellyII's Avatar
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    Well for an educated man I still would have asked for the stats on thoses shootings. If he just hears things like that, well I hear alot of stuff to, but its not necessarily fact either.

    All in all you did great, or atleast you stayed calm and didnt really tell him what a bonehead he was like im sure you wanted to..

  5. #5
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    You can't fix stupid.

    I wouldn't even waste my time trying to educate this moron, as it appears that it would be a fruitless endeavor.

  6. #6
    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    Arguing about gun control is like arguing about religion. It is a waste of time. The only friends that know I carry are friends that also carry, and not even all of them know. I like to keep it that way.
    A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    I can't find it for the life of me, but I once read a report that indicated that police had more Negligent Discharges (NDs) than armed citizens.

    The reason that this was so (according to the researchers), was the amount of training that individual citizens spend using their weapons (range time). Apparently, police don't (for the most part) spend too much time at the range unless they have to for qualification.

    Now, before I am lambasted for such heresy by this site's Finest, don't shoot the messenger. I have heard that reasoning from numerous sources and sites including some police blog/forums like PoliceOne.com.

    Ask your friend if it is a logical idea that the donning of a uniform immediately alleviates most of the "tendency" to shoot oneself in the foot or such. I would point out (to his obvious rebuttal of superior training on the part of police) that many armed citizens have demonstrated superior training in many situations (the woman in the church in CO comes to mind). I would also point out that many of the finest trainers in this country NEVER SERVED AS POLICE.

    If you can manage it, one fine and dandy dirty trick of rhetoric is to "distract and attack".

    Meaning: If you can get your friend to disparage, in his own words through seemingly unrelated discourse, certain police actions, then you can turn those statements around and ask him if such actions are indicators of the "superior training" that would negate accidental self-injury.

    Yeah, it's a filthy little tactic, but I like it.

    In the end, you may just have to concede that your friend has a differing opinion, and you will never move him from it.

    That is an omnipresent possibility with anyone...
    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

    Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.

    Convenire Volui Spectatus

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bm7b5 View Post
    Arguing about gun control is like arguing about religion. It is a waste of time. The only friends that know I carry are friends that also carry, and not even all of them know. I like to keep it that way.
    Yeah, but it passes the time...

    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

    Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.

    Convenire Volui Spectatus

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    Start telling him some of the things you've "heard" about architecture. See how far that one gets. When he scoffs and finally gives the look of "you're beyond help" then tell him "yeah, that's how I feel when you open your mouth about guns."
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    Start telling him some of the things you've "heard" about architecture. See how far that one gets. When he scoffs and finally gives the look of "you're beyond help" then tell him "yeah, that's how I feel when you open your mouth about guns."
    Bravo! That's the spirit!
    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

    Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.

    Convenire Volui Spectatus

  11. #11
    Member Array MedPig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EvilMonk View Post
    I can't find it for the life of me, but I once read a report that indicated that police had more Negligent Discharges (NDs) than armed citizens.

    The reason that this was so (according to the researchers), was the amount of training that individual citizens spend using their weapons (range time). Apparently, police don't (for the most part) spend too much time at the range unless they have to for qualification.
    Actually, you are very probably right. I know of NO NDs among my friends, but while I was a cop (15 years), we had two that I can think of, and I heard of an ND which actually grazed another cop, but happened before I joined the force. So, yeah, I could see that.

    Guns don't kill people.
    Gaping wounds in vital organs do.
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  12. #12
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    Never argue with 'anti-gun' idiots...
    In time, they may become 'victimized' and come around...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  13. #13
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Okay, so he has a couple of degrees. That makes him a thermometer, not educated or intelligent.

    It's like trying to teach a pig to sing:

    1. It frustrates you.
    2. It annoys the pig.

    Change the topic. Or, change your friends.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    When I come across anti gunner types. I simply say "there not for everyone".

    This way I don't give them a platform to spew there non sense.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    Maybe this is why a diploma is sometimes refered to as a 'sheep skin'.
    "If we loose Freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the Last Place on Earth!" Ronald Reagan

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