Anatomy of a violent encounter...

This is a discussion on Anatomy of a violent encounter... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, another thread on this forum got me thinking about the actual anatomy of a violent encounter and the theory and skill set involved in ...

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Thread: Anatomy of a violent encounter...

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Anatomy of a violent encounter...

    So, another thread on this forum got me thinking about the actual anatomy of a violent encounter and the theory and skill set involved in each step. I am not an expert on violent action, but I thought I'd start something and see if we can't collaborate towards developing a full theory of violent encounters and some resources for learning more. If this has already been done (anywhere), just point me that direction. If you think of additional steps or books that address anything here, I'd love your input.


    Pre-encounter:

    1. Observe - Situational Awareness
    2. Orient - realize that a violent encounter is actually happening (denial, rationalization, etc.) - "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker

    Encounter:
    3. Decide - how will I respond and with what tool?
    4. Act - what weapons do I have (and should I have) at my disposal (rifle, pistol, knife, pepper spray, keys, hands and feet, pickle jar, etc.)? How do I increase my skills with these tools?
    5. Reloading - how many rounds are expended in the average gunfight? how many expended in the most extreme gunfights?
    6. Transitioning between weapons - gun to knife, etc.

    Post-Encounter:
    7. First-aid
    8. Communication to LE - whoever calls 911 first wins. You also have a right not to self-incriminate, but what do you actually say? - YouTube - Dont Talk to Police
    9. Surrendering a firearm used in SD to LE - special considerations?
    10. Communication to counsel and legal considerations - retaining counsel ahead of time and how to pick a gun lawyer
    11. Post Traumatic Stress - symptoms, remedies, prevalence, etc.
    12. Risk of retaliatory violence - do the bad guys ever really come after you if you take out one of their own, or is that just the movies? Do you prevent an injured perp from calling 911 or his buddies?



    Mel
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    Member Array robinsonre's Avatar
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    A few minor nitpicks

    First, I think that you should add "identify potential threats" as it's own step under "pre-encounter"

    To me situational awareness is knowing where I am, entrances, exits and who is around me. There is an additional level of awareness that many refer to as the "spidey sense". Obviously ANYONE can be a potential threat, but we can't watch EVERYONE all the time so we must sometimes profile based on appearance and action and we MUST trust our instincts.

    What is that guy doing over there?
    Why is he acting strange?
    What is that in his hand?
    Those people look like they are fighting, could a gunfight erupt?
    Why is that person standing so close to my car?


    Second I think that the "decide" step should be pre-encounter. Actually being attacked is not the time to decide how to respond to the attack. As a corollary to the "identify potential threats" one should always consider what MIGHT happen. If that man pulls a knife out of his pocket and charges me I will do X, if it's a gun I will do Y, if he starts pummeling me with bare fists I will do Z

    My third point extends on the first point and should be placed under "during encounter" : adapt. A fight is seldom as clear cut as we'd like it to be. An agile mind is as important as an agile body when it comes to use of force. Let's say a teenager draws a knife and demands your wallet, you draw your handgun and as you are acquiring a sight picture his bewildered and frightened mother jumps in between the two of you and attempts to wrestle the gun from your hands. Always be prepared to adapt.

    Finally, between during encounter and post encounter I would include "regain situational awareness and mental composure". Anyone who has been in a fistfight or other life threatening situation will note that one of the inherent attributes is loss of focus on one's surroundings [with good reason, your focus is now directed entirely on your opponent(s)]. Threat scanning is a vital part of regaining situational awareness and mental composure, but it is not everything.

    Other than that it looks like a good step by step analysis.
    "Life exists at a level of complexity almost beyond our ability to comprehend. It's a well known fact that if you try to take apart a cat to see how it works one of the first things you have on your hands is a non-working cat" - Douglas Adams

    "All things are governed by law" - Hippocrates

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    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    Post-Encounter:
    7. First-aid
    NEGITIVE-

    The guy posed enough of a threat that I had to shoot him: I am not getting close enough to touch him or HAVE HIM GRAB ME. Even in most police shootings the "shootee" is secured before medical personel are allowed in.

    You have mercy for him fine, how much mercy would he have for you???? He just tried to kill or injure you, if he gets his hands on you do you think he is going to give you a big sloppy french kiss??????

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    Distinguished Member Array TerriLi's Avatar
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    7. First Aid
    This also applies to yourself, often after the intial incident of violence you will think you are uninjuried. You often are injuried and just not feeling it yet. Check yourself, and anyone else that was involved that you care to assist.
    I know not what this "overkill" means.

    Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.

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    Senior Member Array agentmel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350 View Post
    NEGITIVE-

    The guy posed enough of a threat that I had to shoot him: I am not getting close enough to touch him or HAVE HIM GRAB ME. Even in most police shootings the "shootee" is secured before medical personel are allowed in.

    You have mercy for him fine, how much mercy would he have for you???? He just tried to kill or injure you, if he gets his hands on you do you think he is going to give you a big sloppy french kiss??????
    Sorry, I should have been clearer. This is first aid to myself, another bystander, etc. I will not under any circumstance whatever be rendering first aid to someone I just had to defend myself against.

    Mel
    The Ethics of Liberty
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    How long have we watered the Tree of Deceit with the blood of patriots?

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    Jim Grover - AKA Kelly McCann.
    Jim is a phenomenal real world trainer.

    There are a pile of short Kelly McCann Vid Clip snippets on Youtube.
    Like this one (below) from "Inside The Crucible 4"

    Watch this one in its entirety and you'll see why I would never even think of carrying my EDC self~defensive firearm in a Not So Smart Carry. <~~

    YouTube - Inside the Crucible Volume 4

    Sorry if my post offended anybody.
    Better to be offended and alive than delusional and dead.

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    Member Array BWillis57's Avatar
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    Check out David Grossman's On Combat. It is a great reference that covers all of the above topics.

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    Member Array moparoutlaw's Avatar
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    Looks as though you have spent some time researching John Boyd's OODA loop theory. Looking through the OODA "glass" one could break down each of your twelve points into its own discrete OODA loop. To truly develop universal truth from unique instances and circumstances, I feel that looking into each point this way could be greatly beneficial.

    I realize that the point of your thread must be, for the sake of brevity, be much more generalized. It just seems that breaking the individual actions down and looking at them as a series of loops operating within a larger loop that a person will be able to more precisely use their own skill sets and training to a greater advantage. I guess what I'm getting at is that this is a HUGE can of worms to pick through, but a very worthy discussion.

    Further thought into Boyd's ideas and applying them to your excellent original points would give us a firmer base upon which to develop a "full theory".

    Looking forward to following and taking part in your discussion.

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