this is a dead man - Page 4

this is a dead man

This is a discussion on this is a dead man within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well done....

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Thread: this is a dead man

  1. #46
    Member Array kmbrcstm2's Avatar
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    Well done.
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  2. #47
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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  3. #48
    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post

    Absolutely, and if you don't have the guts, determination and competency in your ability, I would say comply and hope for the best! There are no guarantees in life.

    What do you look for that is going to convince you he is going to shoot anyway? Do you wait until you see his muzzle flash?

    Look, for me... as soon as he sticks his gun out at me, he is telling me that he is attempting to negotiate for my life.

    I ain't negotiating for my life! If I get shot or killed it is going to be because of my decision to act, and not because I just stood there and let him determine what he was going to do to me.
    If the BG has his gun on you, You are already dead! He just hasn't pulled the trigger.

    As stated before he is expecting you to comply. His reaction time is going to be very slow since he is expecting to get your valuables. He isn't expecting a fight.

    The decision to either comply and hope that the BG doesn't kill you or to pull your gun and stop the threat isn't one that should be made in that instant. You need to think about what you feel is the right thing for you to do.

    As for me, Please reread the above quote!
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  4. #49
    Member Array Dihappy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunthorp View Post
    A young African-American man passed him by two paces,

    So what may i ask was the racial makeup of the student? Or is that little tidbit irrelevant?
    "...trying to get a long gun into play while someone is all over you like a monkey eating a cupcake is not very conducive to good survival techniques." ~Bark'n

  5. #50
    Ex Member Array Karter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I find it hard to believe that it's recommended to take the time to aim for a head shot when a BG has a gun already drawn. Is this so?
    I don't recommend drawing a .380 when you are already covered PERIOD. It simply does not have the stopping power to prevent return fire from a determined opponent. Thats not to say it won't work - a guy in flordia recently drew a .380 and fired once while covered with a 12 gauge. 12 gauge wasn't looking for a fight and retreated. But what does this prove? If the guy isn't going to fight back, he probably isn't going to murder you either. So what do you gain by drawing the .380 unless you can do a sidestep/headshot maneuver or something equally reliable.

    If you have the skill and experience to do so though, your only option is a shot to the head. An experienced point shooter can do this reliably at this range I believe. I don't have the skill to do it; I would not draw anything in this situation. Talk to me again after I've had a few multi-day sessions of professional training.

  6. #51
    Distinguished Member Array maxwell's Avatar
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    One less BG

  7. #52
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    Keep an open mind. When itís YOUR LIFE thatís on the line, no matter what anyone says you ought to do, use your common sense. You know your physique, conditioning, and skills, as well as your deficiencies and handicaps. With good awareness, youíll clearly see your options without extraneous clutter details. It will boil down to your mindset. Are you committed to survival? Are you going to fight back? I donít mean recklessly expose yourself to certain suicide by BG. I do mean that when attacked, your lifeís mission HAS to be to stop the threat as efficiently and quickly as possible. The first thought that went through our friendís mind was an expression of his mindset, his determination NOT to be a victim, and his confidence in his skill. What happens to you when in sudden jeopardy of death? We have experienced shock that words cannot adequately express nor range drills approximate. It is that warrior mindset, pushing us through the freezing fear and trembling terror, which steels our resolve and focuses our purpose.

    Although some situations may share similarities, and generalizations can be deduced, hard and fast rules go out the door in a fight for survival. In this instance, the attack took place in the open at tic-tac range with zero chance of running away. Our 50+ yr old might have done a disarm, but going to ground was not appealing. The whole affair lasted less than 10 seconds, in which time it was assessed that the BG was experienced, professional, but when nonchalant, open to surprise. Because the BG evidently did not have the warrior mindset, the sudden shock of retaliation completely incapacitated him, and reduced his actions to reflexes. He got a taste of what heíd been dishing out.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

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    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I find it hard to believe that it's recommended to take the time to aim for a head shot when a BG has a gun already drawn. Is this so?
    In my day, we were taught that the decision was situational and somewhat driven by your SA.

    BG that is scared, shaking, on-edge, hyped-up, a lose cannon that could go off over any move, you were to go slow on the decision.

    OTOH, the BG with a swagger waving the gun as an intimidator, you distract and take your best shot.

    However, unless you had good reason to expect body armor, you point shoot CM not take a head shot.

    As always, YMMV
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    I have not yet finished this thread, but did anyone else mention that purse carry could be an advantage here....if a woman is 'digging in her purse for her wallet' and shoots the BG from the purse? (Doesnt even draw it).

    She's only likely to get one shot off from in the purse if it's a semi-auto (with the slide action), but it seems possible.

    For myself, in most cases, I think that once someone has a gun drawn on me, I'm better off giving them my wallet. I will not, however, go anywhere with someone or get in a car.
    The problem here is that the BG is probably going to ask for the whole purse, not just the wallet inside. He might get really angry or anxious when you reach inside the purse.

    Or more likely yet, he'd probably just grab the purse as he walked by, then he has your gun.

  10. #55
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UW Dawg View Post
    The problem here is that the BG is probably going to ask for the whole purse, not just the wallet inside. He might get really angry or anxious when you reach inside the purse.

    Or more likely yet, he'd probably just grab the purse as he walked by, then he has your gun.

    This is my biggest worry with purse carry. Either way, bg walks off with my gun :-(

  11. #56
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karter View Post
    I don't recommend drawing a .380 when you are already covered PERIOD. It simply does not have the stopping power to prevent return fire from a determined opponent. Thats not to say it won't work - a guy in flordia recently drew a .380 and fired once while covered with a 12 gauge. 12 gauge wasn't looking for a fight and retreated. But what does this prove? If the guy isn't going to fight back, he probably isn't going to murder you either. So what do you gain by drawing the .380 unless you can do a sidestep/headshot maneuver or something equally reliable.

    If you have the skill and experience to do so though, your only option is a shot to the head. An experienced point shooter can do this reliably at this range I believe. I don't have the skill to do it; I would not draw anything in this situation. Talk to me again after I've had a few multi-day sessions of professional training.
    My take on this is that unless you end up with some distraction or similar, I would not draw in this situation either.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    In my day, we were taught that the decision was situational and somewhat driven by your SA.

    BG that is scared, shaking, on-edge, hyped-up, a lose cannon that could go off over any move, you were to go slow on the decision.

    OTOH, the BG with a swagger waving the gun as an intimidator, you distract and take your best shot.

    However, unless you had good reason to expect body armor, you point shoot CM not take a head shot.

    As always, YMMV
    thx

  13. #58
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    Not brave, but not WILLING for my death or love one's death to be at the choosing of BG without any meaningful input from me. If BG is just playing around he should be at arcade with a pocket full of coins. If he sticks a firearm in someones face just to get those coins then he may never play at the arcade again. Those who choose to defend themselves are not easily going to accept the demands, even at gun point, of some evil choosing BG. Choosing not to be a WILLING victim may well mean choosing to fight and even die, but the other fellow will know he was in a life and death fight.

    As to the 380; fighting back may mean needing spare mag for other BG so always carry one or two.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunthorp View Post
    Keep an open mind. When itís YOUR LIFE thatís on the line, no matter what anyone says you ought to do, use your common sense. You know your physique, conditioning, and skills, as well as your deficiencies and handicaps. With good awareness, youíll clearly see your options without extraneous clutter details. It will boil down to your mindset. Are you committed to survival? Are you going to fight back? I donít mean recklessly expose yourself to certain suicide by BG. I do mean that when attacked, your lifeís mission HAS to be to stop the threat as efficiently and quickly as possible. The first thought that went through our friendís mind was an expression of his mindset, his determination NOT to be a victim, and his confidence in his skill. What happens to you when in sudden jeopardy of death? We have experienced shock that words cannot adequately express nor range drills approximate. It is that warrior mindset, pushing us through the freezing fear and trembling terror, which steels our resolve and focuses our purpose.

    Although some situations may share similarities, and generalizations can be deduced, hard and fast rules go out the door in a fight for survival. In this instance, the attack took place in the open at tic-tac range with zero chance of running away. Our 50+ yr old might have done a disarm, but going to ground was not appealing. The whole affair lasted less than 10 seconds, in which time it was assessed that the BG was experienced, professional, but when nonchalant, open to surprise. Because the BG evidently did not have the warrior mindset, the sudden shock of retaliation completely incapacitated him, and reduced his actions to reflexes. He got a taste of what heíd been dishing out.
    Excellent Post!
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  15. #60
    Senior Member Array EvilMonk's Avatar
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    Good to hear!

    That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...

    Donít mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.

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