Do I have the right mindset on this?

Do I have the right mindset on this?

This is a discussion on Do I have the right mindset on this? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm a big guy 6'2" like 350-375 what have you. Never been in a fight my whole life (22 btw). Now my father raised me ...

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Thread: Do I have the right mindset on this?

  1. #1
    Member Array ozzyzig87's Avatar
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    Do I have the right mindset on this?

    I'm a big guy 6'2" like 350-375 what have you. Never been in a fight my whole life (22 btw). Now my father raised me to defend myself (if a guy bullied me when i went to school or whatever ). You know like how guys are taught to fist fight if necessary and problems solved. I'm sure you guys get the idea. The thing is that I hate fights and dont want to fight. So now we all know how times are kind of hard, people are doing crazy things to get by (robberies, etc). Now the way I think is like here in South East Texas meth is a big deal for the "not so great part of society" (i dont want to say badguys but you get what i mean. Now say I get into an altercation or a guy is trying to rob me and he winds up wanting to fight me. now for aguments sake he dosent have a weapon pulled (maybe he has one i dont know). And lets say I cant leave or dont have a phone to call 911. Now I dont want to fight because how do i know this guy isnt on meth even if we did scuffle he probably wouldnt feel a thing. So would it be logical to pull a gun on this person and hopes he runs away? (but i would still be able to pull the trigger if he pulled a gun or violently started to attack me). I don;t think I would be justafiable in pulling a gun because there was no imediate threat, it would be more of a feeling or a hunch if you will that this guy may be a drugged out robber who would do anything to get my wallet. Sorry for this long confusing rant/senerio it has been in the back of my mind for some time now.


  2. #2
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    When you pull your weapon it had better be with the intention of using it at that very moment and you had better be legally authorized to do so.

    Guns are not to scare, threaten or intimidate someone into compliance. The dynamics of the scenario may change, and you may not need to shoot, but there are no guarantees.

    I suggest you read Massad Ayoob's book, "In The Gravest Extreme", for starters abd maybe spend some time reading various post in the "Tactics and Scenarios" section.

    Biker

  3. #3
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    Getting into an altercation and getting robbed are two different scenarios. If you are getting robbed, you can draw your gun on him. In Texas, you can use the threat of force (pulling your gun) even though at that point deadly force is not justified. Getting into a fight is different. If you are a mutual participant in the fight you can't draw your gun. You would need to break off the fight, declare your intention to stop. If he follows you after that, it's assault and you can use your gun as a threat like before, but it's a little risky.

    You're 6'2 and 375, how many people want to fight you?
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

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    Number one, carry a phone...that's an important tool that may save you from being caller #2 to 911.

    Walk away from trouble, if you can run, do so.
    If a crime is unavoidable, use the force necessary to prevent it and call 911.
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  5. #5
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    BikerRN said it. Also get some basic hand to hand skills. Just because you have a gun doesn't mean it's your only tool/option.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


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  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozzyzig87 View Post
    I'm a big guy 6'2" like 350-375 what have you. Never been in a fight my whole life (22 btw). Now my father raised me to defend myself (if a guy bullied me when i went to school or whatever ). You know like how guys are taught to fist fight if necessary and problems solved. I'm sure you guys get the idea. The thing is that I hate fights and dont want to fight. So now we all know how times are kind of hard, people are doing crazy things to get by (robberies, etc). Now the way I think is like here in South East Texas meth is a big deal for the "not so great part of society" (i dont want to say badguys but you get what i mean. Now say I get into an altercation or a guy is trying to rob me and he winds up wanting to fight me. now for aguments sake he dosent have a weapon pulled (maybe he has one i dont know). And lets say I cant leave or dont have a phone to call 911. Now I dont want to fight because how do i know this guy isnt on meth even if we did scuffle he probably wouldnt feel a thing. So would it be logical to pull a gun on this person and hopes he runs away? (but i would still be able to pull the trigger if he pulled a gun or violently started to attack me). I don;t think I would be justafiable in pulling a gun because there was no imediate threat, it would be more of a feeling or a hunch if you will that this guy may be a drugged out robber who would do anything to get my wallet. Sorry for this long confusing rant/senerio it has been in the back of my mind for some time now.
    Uhm, read this thread:
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...arry-help.html
    then decide if you want to pull a gun to scare somebody away in Texas.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  7. #7
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    Do I have the right mindset on this?
    No.
    You pull your gun ONLY if you fear for your life.

    A "hunch" or the fact that you dont like the way the guy looks, isnt going to cut it.

    Man up and learn how to fight. The gun is the last resort, not the first.
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    Member Array Chiller2's Avatar
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    Man up and learn how to fight. The gun is the last resort, not the first.
    Sorry I disagree just because you want to have a physical altercation I shouldn't be required to participate.If you attack me I am in fear for my life I am NOT a trained or experienced fighter you attack me and I have a weapon I plan on using it.

  9. #9
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    ozzyzig87

    You need to read this so you fully understand the law here in Texas and what you'd be up against at trial:
    PENAL CODE** CHAPTER 9. JUSTIFICATION EXCLUDING CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY

    as others have said, you need to consider all options when confronted with someone, get some hand to hand skills, you can't always resort pulling a gun every time

    a prospective bad guy would need to do/show something that you would reasonably believe would cause you serious bodily harm or death, or other situations specified in the link above
    make sure to read Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON in the link I gave above
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  10. #10
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    Here in SC, we have a duty to retreat (unless in home or work place). I don't recommend 'man up' either (unless you're highly trained), as that can get you knocked out. Nothing like taking a beating while you're unconscious!
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  11. #11
    Member Array theotherlis's Avatar
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    I think everybody who can should take some self defence courses. As well as more handgun courses. There are so many different ways we can end up in a Bad Situation and very few of them are going to be clear cut.

    But bottom line: A gun should NEVER be used to "hope the bad guys runs away". A gun should ONLY be used with the intent of using the gun. If the bad guy happens to see the gun, decide he doesn't want to be dead, and immediately flees - well, good for you, now call 911 and let them know what happened so you don't get a brandishing charge (or worse) later.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Here in SC, we have a duty to retreat
    Sometimes...In SC:

    "As a general matter, before using deadly force, even in self-defense, you have a duty to retreat in the following circumstances:

    1. on a public street or highway, even when in own automobile. State v. McGee, 185 S.C. 184, 190, 193 S.E. 303, 306 (1937).
    2. in a store where the public is invited. State v. Peeples, 126 S.C. 422, 120 S.E. 361 (1923)."

    There is no duty to retreat from your property, your place of business, or from a friend's property where you are a guest. There is no duty to retreat if "if to do so would apparently increase [your] danger."

    In SC, to be justified in drawing your weapon, you must "believe you are in imminent danger of loss of life or serious bodily injury." Size disparity (you're 70, 140, and 5'5" and the attacker is 25, 225 and 6'3"), and number advantage (you=1, attackers=3) are both taken into account. If the attacker has a weapon, opportunity, and intent, you're clear to draw. Now, almost anything can be classed as a weapon, including a piece of wood, wallet chain, or even a large, heavy belt buckle.

    My CWP Instructor, a retired 25-year veteran of a local PD, told us: "If someone comes at you with their fists, you must assume they're Joe Louis. If they have a bat, you must assume they're Babe Ruth. If they have a knife, you must assume they know how to use it, including throwing it. If they have a gun, you must assume they intend to use it with deadly effect. Act accordingly." The penalty for being wrong is too severe. Legalities aside for a moment, think about it. There is no such thing as a "fair fight" or the Marquis of Queensbury Rules on the street. As someone once said, if you find yourself in a "fair fight" on the street, your tactics suck. The bottom-line object is to survive, and to do whatever it takes to accomplish that. If someone walks towards me swinging a knife, I'm not going to wait until he cuts me to assume evil intent on his part. If he points a gun at me during a robbery, I'm not going to let him get off the first shot to assume he wants to kill me. Now, I'd NEVER advocate anyone break the law, but when asked why he shot the guy, someone once said, "Because he's dead and I'm alive, and that's how I wanted it to end."

    "It's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6."
    Last edited by Keltyke; October 7th, 2009 at 03:32 PM.

  13. #13
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    Thumbs up

    Good post, Keltyke.
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  14. #14
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    I have one problem with fighting while armed.

    First off I'm not afraid to fight, in fact I've trained in martial arts, I've fought many times in my life....far too many. Where I grew up if you didn't fight back you simple got beat up.

    With that said, I'd rather fight then shoot any day. But what bothers me is that if I get into a fight and the other fighter manages to knock my gun out. Then what?

    What happens if the opposing fighter gets your gun? That concept bothers me.

  15. #15
    Distinguished Member Array BlueNinjaGo's Avatar
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    I agree with the general response. Retreat and keep distance if possible. Make it very clear you want nothing to do with it. If there is anyone remotely around, yell at the top of your lungs that you do not want to fight, and that you wish for him to back off. Call 911 if possible. I would say draw your firearm if he continues to pursue you, but I'm no lawyer. Drawing your firearm should be the 2nd to last option. Firing should be your last option.

    I'm sure no one here wants to take a life, but I'm sure everyone here would rather it be the BG, and not themselves.

    Oh, and this would be a great use for non-lethal weapons like a stun gun or pepper spray. (Assuming the aggressor is unarmed.)

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