How Safe is your gun

This is a discussion on How Safe is your gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Well Steve, I don't know how I could have an EDC if I was concerned with it's safety. I carry a gun to be safer ...

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Thread: How Safe is your gun

  1. #16
    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Well Steve, I don't know how I could have an EDC if I was concerned with it's safety. I carry a gun to be safer . . . if there was any chance the make or model I chose to carry didn't have adequate safety features that were reliably proven, I wouldn't carry it.

    I am not a gun guy, so I have never touched a Kahr in my life. I have a Glock which consists of a Trigger Safety that when pulled then disables a Firing Pin Safety and a Drop Safety.

    Pretty easy for me, keep it in a Holster, no problems. My Glock CANNOT go off unless that trigger is pulled.

    I take my EDC into "the office" without hesitation or worry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve201 View Post
    I'm not a newbie to weapons...there have been cases where a weapon AD'd...maybe not as common with today's weapons...but long ago's weapons were sometimes susceptable to an occasional AD...
    Well I have yet to hear or read a story about a modern firearm that just went off on it's own. All stories I am aware of were either negligence by the user, or it was operator error and they didn't use all of the safety mechanisms the way they were engineered and designed.

    Anytime you here of a gun going off unintentionally it is a Negligent Discharge. In today's litigious society, no firearm is manufactured that would just go off on its own.

    Get a new firearm that you have confidence in it's safety features, or get more training on Kahr to make sure you are educated and practiced with all of it's components.

    So to answer the question . . . "How safe is my gun" . . . it is as safe as the operator who handles it, which in my case is pretty darn safe
    Glock 26 w/ CTAC IWB

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  3. #17
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve201 View Post
    Guys.
    I have owned that Kahr 40 cw for about 6 mos...shot it at the range...but because there is no safety lever....I never felt it was safe to have a round in the chamber...so..my thinking at the time was not to carry a chambered round in it...which meant if confronted..I'd have to take the time to rack a round into the chamber...
    now ...since I read that article...it kinda confirmed my suspicion...now..not being the head with this guy and finding out exactly what happened...I have to take it for granted that the weapon accidently discharged when it hit the floor....
    I'm not a newbie to weapons...there have been cases where a weapon AD'd...maybe not as common with today's weapons...but long ago's weapons were sometimes susceptable to an occasional AD...

    and this is just something to beware of for Kahr owners...the possibility of an AD is there....

    Steve
    So not being new to weapons, why on earth did you buy a gun that you think isn't safe to be carried with a round in the chamber?

    On a side note, if anyone want's to debate "one in the chamber" do it here: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...bered-not.html

  4. #18
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    Steve,
    If you're not new to weapons and felt that way about external safeties, why did you buy the Kahr, in the first place? Kahr's are no more susceptible to AD's than any other modern handgun. AD's are caused by operator error.
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  5. #19
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    Correct me if I'm wrong. but I believe, like all other quality guns, the Kahrs must pass a drop test. There's just no way to pass a finger on the trigger test, or playing with your pistol on the can test.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunthorp View Post
    There's just no way to pass a finger on the trigger test, or playing with your pistol on the can test.
    It passed the individual tests. It couldn't pass the combined test... playing with your pistol, with you finger on the trigger, while your on the can.
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  7. #21
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    So not being new to weapons, why on earth did you buy a gun that you think isn't safe to be carried with a round in the chamber?

    On a side note, if anyone want's to debate "one in the chamber" do it here: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...bered-not.html
    well....I saw the gun and it was very compact for concieled carry...we talked about it at the gun shop and was assured it had a striker block and an accidental discharge wasn't likely....
    however I do have to claim that it was one of those bling moments....money in my pocket..nice price..nice feel...and I even mentioned what concerned me was no safety lever....other than my colt python...every other hand gun I own has a safety on it....some sort of safety...even my 1911 combat commander has a safety lever on the back of the hand grip and the trigger has a half cock setting....so...as I stated....it SEEMed like a pretty nice weapon.....that is until I saw this article....
    now..with that said....since I read that article...I really don't have any confidence in that Kahr....so...I've convinced the gun shop to trade it in for a Taurus pt145bp....it's a compact conceil carry weapon and has a safety lever that you can snick off as you bring the weapon to bear....that will be much more reliable for me than one with no safety.....
    again...not knowing all of the circumstances of the AD in the article...I can only assume that the article is somewhat factual....I learned of this event after I'd had the Kahr for about 6-7 mos of ownership...
    do I believe everything I read???.....nope...but I'd rather er on the side of caution than to be reckless........
    again...not trying to instigate anything....just presenting some facts or maybe an article that questions a weapon's reliability/safety....that's all.....

    Steve

  8. #22
    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve201 View Post
    well....I saw the gun and it was very compact for concieled carry...we talked about it at the gun shop and was assured it had a striker block and an accidental discharge wasn't likely....
    however I do have to claim that it was one of those bling moments....money in my pocket..nice price..nice feel...and I even mentioned what concerned me was no safety lever....other than my colt python...every other hand gun I own has a safety on it....some sort of safety...even my 1911 combat commander has a safety lever on the back of the hand grip and the trigger has a half cock setting....so...as I stated....it SEEMed like a pretty nice weapon.....that is until I saw this article....
    now..with that said....since I read that article...I really don't have any confidence in that Kahr....so...I've convinced the gun shop to trade it in for a Taurus pt145bp....it's a compact conceil carry weapon and has a safety lever that you can snick off as you bring the weapon to bear....that will be much more reliable for me than one with no safety.....
    again...not knowing all of the circumstances of the AD in the article...I can only assume that the article is somewhat factual....I learned of this event after I'd had the Kahr for about 6-7 mos of ownership...
    do I believe everything I read???.....nope...but I'd rather er on the side of caution than to be reckless........
    again...not trying to instigate anything....just presenting some facts or maybe an article that questions a weapon's reliability/safety....that's all.....

    Steve
    While your logic is sound in some aspects. Allow me to make some observations:

    1: The only one that really knows what happened in that bathroom is the guy who dropped the gun. If he puled the trigger, he's not going to tell anyone.

    2: Your Colt Python is more likely to lose timing than a Smith, so as IT's not safe you should give it to me.

    3: Unless your 1911 had a firing pin safety it's probably more likely to suffer a drop fire than a Kahr. The Kahr P40 is CA approved which means it PASSED their drop testing which is pretty extreme:

    CA Penal Code s12128.
    12128. As used in this chapter, the "drop safety requirement for
    handguns" means that at the conclusion of the firing requirements for
    handguns described in Section 12127, the same certified independent
    testing laboratory shall subject the same three handguns of the make
    and model for which certification is sought, to the following test:
    A primed case (no powder or projectile) shall be inserted into the
    chamber. For pistols, the slide shall be released, allowing it to
    move forward under the impetus of the recoil spring, and an empty
    magazine shall be inserted. For both pistols and revolvers, the
    weapon shall be placed in a drop fixture capable of dropping the
    pistol from a drop height of 1m + 1cm (39.4 + 0.4 in.) onto the
    largest side of a slab of solid concrete having minimum dimensions of
    7.5 X 15 X 15 cm (3 X 6 X 6 in.). The drop distance shall be
    measured from the lowermost portion of the weapon to the top surface
    of the slab. The weapon shall be dropped from a fixture and not from
    the hand. The weapon shall be dropped in the condition that it
    would be in if it were dropped from a hand (cocked with no manual
    safety applied). If the design of a pistol is such that upon leaving
    the hand a "safety" is automatically applied by the pistol, this
    feature shall not be defeated. An approved drop fixture is a short
    piece of string with the weapon attached at one end and the other end
    held in an air vise until the drop is initiated.
    The following six drops shall be performed:
    (a) Normal firing position with barrel horizontal.
    (b) Upside down with barrel horizontal.
    (c) On grip with barrel vertical.
    (d) On muzzle with barrel vertical.
    (e) On either side with barrel horizontal.
    (f) If there is an exposed hammer or striker, on the rearmost
    point of that device, otherwise on the rearmost point of the weapon.

    The primer shall be examined for indentations after each drop. If
    indentations are present, a fresh primed case shall be used for the
    next drop.
    The handgun shall pass this test if each of the three test guns
    does not fire the primer.
    The Kahr P40 is plenty safe just so long as the user is as safe as the gun.



    Enjoy your Taurus, as you're not new to guns, I'm sure you know of their issues as well.


    Also, the 1911 HAMMER has a half cock notch, not the the trigger, and the half cock is there in case of operator error or catastrophic failure of a component, but that's topic for another thread.

  9. #23
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    I hope it works out for you.... Are you concerned about all the problems people post about Taurus pistols being unreliable and having terrible customer service?
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

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  10. #24
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    One guy drops a gun in a bathroom stall and suddenly you feel all kahrs will fire if dropped,I think the chances of me being robbed and not having the time or ability to chamber a round more likely than a gun going off if dropped,also if you know that could happen you take extra steps like not using a cheap 1 size fits everything holster and make sure your gun doesn't drop
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    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  11. #25
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    These types of "I just dropped it and it went off ", AD's are a lot like Alien abductions and miracles, there are never any witnesses,natural laws are suspended, and the results are never reproducible under testing . The guy who murdered the poor innocent toilet pulled the trigger ,either playing with the gun or by trying to catch it as it fell. It's the only reasonable explanation , anything else is a bit hard to swallow.

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12Rounds View Post
    These types of "I just dropped it and it went off ", AD's are a lot like Alien abductions and miracles, there are never any witnesses,natural laws are suspended, and the results are never reproducible under testing . The guy who murdered the poor innocent toilet pulled the trigger ,either playing with the gun or by trying to catch it as it fell. It's the only reasonable explanation , anything else is a bit hard to swallow.
    Yup!
    An AD is caused by a mechanical failure, or tampering. A ND is caused by not keeping ones Bugger Hook off the Bang Switch.
    A gun is a tool, unless it is operated by another tool, it's rare, if not impossible for it to fire on it's own.
    As far as toilet habits, I go in do my business, clean up and leave, I don't play with my firearm while answering a nature call. If I feel the urge to fondle my firearms, I either head to the range, or take it down, clean and lubricate it and reassemble.
    Firearms are not toys and playing with one on the toilet is simply ignorant.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    "I dropped it and it just went off" is another "The dog ate my homework" type of excuse.

    Odd, isn't it, how in rigorous testing they can't manage to replicate the event.
    Cheers,
    Rod
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  14. #28
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodc13 View Post
    "I dropped it and it just went off" is another "The dog ate my homework" type of excuse.

    Odd, isn't it, how in rigorous testing they can't manage to replicate the event.
    I agree that it's probably a cover up, but real world is way more demanding that design testing. Because of cost, you can only test so many scenarios. I used to test car network stuff occasionally and I was much better at breaking things than any of my colleagues. Customers were even better still.

    As they say, if you make something idiot proof, they'll just make a better idiot.

  15. #29
    Member Array muddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve201 View Post
    Guys.
    I have owned that Kahr 40 cw for about 6 mos...shot it at the range...but because there is no safety lever....I never felt it was safe to have a round in the chamber...so..my thinking at the time was not to carry a chambered round in it...which meant if confronted..I'd have to take the time to rack a round into the chamber...
    now ...since I read that article...it kinda confirmed my suspicion...now..not being the head with this guy and finding out exactly what happened...I have to take it for granted that the weapon accidently discharged when it hit the floor....
    I'm not a newbie to weapons...there have been cases where a weapon AD'd...maybe not as common with today's weapons...but long ago's weapons were sometimes susceptable to an occasional AD...

    and this is just something to beware of for Kahr owners...the possibility of an AD is there....

    Steve
    Well for one this is old news. It has been hashed and rehashed. But your hole post is about me, me, me. Where is your evidence that Kahr's safety block doesn't work? Since I own a Kahr CW 40 I followed this closely as well as it happened in Utah. From the general consensus on this, the Utah CC and other boards when this post first came out was that Kahr's drop safety is as good as any others and the guy probably reached for the weapon and pulled the trigger. So where are your facts? We want them and not just your paranoia because you are afraid of something. Yes today's weapons are a lot different then the old six guns where you kept the hammer on an empty chamber.

    By the way do you know its bad on a Kahr and could cause a failure to feed buy racking the slide to load the weapon? Recommended procedure is to drop the slide on a round in the mag by using the slide release. Otherwise the extractor could not engage the case rim correctly. Sounds like you need a different weapon.

  16. #30
    Member Array Random's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim_45 View Post
    WOW
    If your bored you can read some of the comments on that newspapers web page, there are ALOT of real un-informed people posting alot of real dumb*** comments about us "gun nuts"
    I think the best comment, though, was this one

    It is interesting to see that the ones that know little or nothing about guns are the most outspoken against them and the people who carry them.
    How true.

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