Company Weapon's Policy - Do they have the right?
This is a discussion on Company Weapon's Policy - Do they have the right? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A public company is a legal entity in and of itself - pays taxes, file lawsuits, etc. The board of directors and officers set policy ...
October 12th, 2009 11:06 PM
A public company is a legal entity in and of itself - pays taxes, file lawsuits, etc. The board of directors and officers set policy on behalf of the public shareholders, so yeah, a public company can prohibit carrying on their premises. I believe a fed law was passed that companies cannot prohibit weapons in locked vehicles in parking lots.
October 12th, 2009 11:30 PM
you are mistaking public and private companies with public and private LAND
Companies have owners or at least those who act in the lieu of owners (CEO etc)
The differences with companies is if it is a corporation (owned by shareholders that is publicly traded) or some other ownership style that is not publicly traded.
Regardless of the company's ownership structure, the owners (or their decision making representatives) have the task of making rules. One of these is whether or not firearms may be brought onto property they control (own, rent, lease). Barring laws against it, they certainly can ban guns just like they can enforce a dress code.
Public land is government owned -- city park, federal building, National Monument...
Private land is any land NOT owned by a government or agency
October 12th, 2009 11:35 PM
That's my definition, too. Just wanted to make sure we were discussing the same thing.
Originally Posted by Cycler
Doesn't matter if it's a publicly traded company or not. If the company owns/rents/leases or otherwise controls the property, it is still considered private property and the company controls what happens on it.
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein
October 12th, 2009 11:54 PM
Yes. And rightly so. My business, my lease, my rules. There are certain people (employees) I do not want carrying in my business. Blanket rule covers any legal issues. I would terminate on the spot anyone that violated this rule. If you feel like looking for another job at the drop of a hat - then by all means carry away. There are no loop holes to CYA in the event you are discovered. I would not carry on any property or business where I have been requested not to. It is the right of the business, property owner, renter or home owner, etc not to have a firearm on their property. We want our rights - but it should not be at the expense of other's rights - right? Does not mean they will earn the right for my business - but hey, this is America.
Originally Posted by SG27
October 13th, 2009 12:08 AM
Yes, I know. I'm just not o.k. with that and wish things were different - especially with the way CEO's behave these days.
Originally Posted by Majorlk
October 13th, 2009 08:39 AM
"If employees believe they are entitled to possess a weapon on Company property, or in a vehicle on Company property, under State law, please consult with HR."
You should probably do that, anonymously if possible.
October 13th, 2009 09:09 AM
No fed law. Some states have such a law, including IIRC, FL and OK.
Originally Posted by nedrgr21
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
October 13th, 2009 10:56 AM
A lot of great info! Thanks!! I was referring to the company renting part of a building. Parking lot is public so I will have to look into VA laws. I failed to mention that the business is in VA; I live in MD.
October 13th, 2009 12:34 PM
Certainly, it depends mostly on (a) your state's statutes and (b) your employer and whether they believe your compliance with company requirements and stipulations in exchange for employment is their right.
Basically, a company has the simple right to predicate your remaining in their employ in exchange for agreeing to perform the work according to the specified standards with specified restrictions/constraints. That may certainly include behavior during company functions, on company-controlled property (whether owned, leased or whatever). Put more simply, a company that believes your weapons are a threat will almost certainly consider your termination within the realm of possibilities ... "right" or "wrong."
Though, some states have forced business to accommodate "weapons" in employee vehicles even when such vehicles are parked at company events or on company-controlled property.
Consider Oregon. It has state legislature preemption of firearms ordinances in the state, hence the public schools cannot deny a person the ability to to carry a firearm. And yet, despite much fighting (including the recent Katz case in Medford), the courts have continued to uphold that educational organizations have the ability to predicate employment upon fulfillment of requirements and stipulations made by the organization, even if that involves the carrying of weapons. Meaning, you're legally allowed to carry, if staff/faculty/student, but be prepared to get fired or expelled and have little luck in the courts.
Put into practical terms ... If a company had a policy of terminating staff for weapons and was fairly straightforward and aggressive about it, including putting such language in the company manual (which you signed/dated in exchange for your agreement to be employed), I would think the following would happen:
- At work, weapon found on you or at your desk -- terminated.
- At work, weapon found in your locker or in your car -- terminated.
- At work, speaking of weapons, using internet to lookup weapons, talking about weapons, bringing in reading material regarding weapons (basically appearing to be a threat) -- terminated.
- At work, bringing weapons along to a company function or onto company-controlled grounds -- terminated.
So far as I know, that's about it. Check with your attorney, if truly concerned.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
October 13th, 2009 03:40 PM
I think you hit it square on the head. They have the choice to let you exercise your birthright to defend yourself on their property yet they choose not to.
Originally Posted by ccw9mm
That's why I'm surprised that so many people think that big public corporations are nothing but "Good" when so many of them make you forfeit your rights when you sign on the dotted line. Basically they show a lack of respect of for just about all of our rights when not protected by law and for whatever reason, we're supposed to think that's o.k.
October 13th, 2009 03:46 PM
Do you like your job?
They will find a way to get rid of you and never say why.
You can stand on your principles and be out of work. Is it worth it?
October 14th, 2009 12:45 AM
It's really a personal decision, when it comes down to it. The worst you'll face is termination from your employer, if caught. It's likely not a felony (unless your job is at a State or Federal building). It seems as though you could weigh the option of carrying concealed, in the event of a nasty incident, or getting fired. That's a very personal decision that each holder must make.
The companies do have the right to create such policies, and act on them according to their own rules. Whether or not you or anyone else agrees to abide by those rules is another story. I'm not necessarily advocating "going rogue", but if the circumstances caused you to feel the need to breach company policy by carrying a weapon on the property, then that would be entirely up to you.
My biggest fear would be dropping the damn thing in the restroom, or some equally egregious revelation. More likely than encountering a violent situation if you think about it.
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