New CCW issue with the wife

This is a discussion on New CCW issue with the wife within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So about 2 months ago my wife decided to get her CCW. I was extremely pleased. She had been to the range before with me ...

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Thread: New CCW issue with the wife

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    New CCW issue with the wife

    So about 2 months ago my wife decided to get her CCW. I was extremely pleased. She had been to the range before with me and mostly shot my dads revolvers. She has never been much of a Semi-auto gal. We went to the gun store to look at revolvers and she spotted a Ruger LCP (Yeah, I know...).

    Out of everything she held she liked the LCP the best. I warned her that it would be snappy but I don't think she fully understood what I meant. After one time at the range she decided she didn't like it and was passed to me. Ok, well...I didn't have a pocket gun so no big loss. I was lacking the funds to run out and buy another gun so I borrowed a wheel gun from my dad for her to carry until I got the funds together.

    Fast forward to about a week ago. I started having a lot of back issues. My doc told me that I was carrying to much stuff around and switching to a lighter pistol may help. (My doc is pro gun). So I sold my Glock 19 and picked up Taurus 709. I also decided to sell the ruger as the 709 filled the gap. Great, so now I have the funds.

    We went to the range on Sunday and like usual she way shooting the 22mag and I was giving my new 709 a test run. I decided to try to get her acclimated to a Semi. Her other complaint about Semi's is she doesn't like the shell casings bouncing around the firing lane. Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. She isn't HORRIBLE with the wheel gun but she definitely isn't what I would consider "accurate". So I say -

    Me - Hey hun, Why don't you run a mag through my 709
    Her - I don't like Semi's
    Me - Well, maybe if you shoot one on occasion you will get used to it.
    Her - <Sigh> FINE...

    I hand her to 709.
    Her -BANG - X ring
    Me - Raises Eyebrow
    Her - Click. Nothing.

    I take the gun from her, drop the mag and rack the slide. No round. hmnmmm. Put the mag back in, rack the slide and hand it back. The gun had performed fine for me when I was shooting it.

    Her - BANG - X ring
    Me - Raises Eyebrow again
    Her - BANG - X ring
    Her - BANG - X ring
    Her - I want a Semi :)
    Me - Rolls eyes
    Her - Click. Nothing

    I take it, drop the mag, rack the slide. Again, No round.

    I'm not a trainer here but I am guessing that because I had no issues and she did that she is probably having limp wrist issues. Since I have never encountered this issue before I am at a bit of a loss. I have a couple questions pertaining to it.

    -Could ammo have been a problem? We were shooting reloads and my dad uses the minimum powder load required. I just ordered 500 rounds of factory ammo and will test this next range session but am wondering your thoughts.

    -Are some guns more sensitive to limp wristing then others?

    - How exactly do you explain to someone how to correct limp wristing? "Hold the gun tighter"? I can't reall come up with a good way to phrase it.

    Any help on this issue would be most useful. I am glad she has gotten over her fear of semi's but don't want to arm her with one if it's not going to be reliable for her.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    I'm able to answer parts of your questions.
    Are some guns more sensitive to limp wristing then others?
    Yes, of course there are.
    How exactly do you explain to someone how to correct limp wristing?
    Bone structure and keeping everything in line helps. Locked elbow for the weak wrist IMO. Holding the gun tighter is good, but fatigue will set in faster. Take frequent breaks with range time and asses what's going on. Many 'carriers' are not avid shooters or involved with shooting sports or regular range visits. Those pretty much demand special care and prime time education since practice is limited. Those who shoot often become more comfortable and adapted to their firearms.
    Could ammo have been a problem?
    In any equation with a means to an end involving science or mechanics.....there can be problems. What our human minds can do is eliminate the possibilities by changing things conditional or environmental, and this should be done one step at a time. The first step with any break down of the human mechanical interface should be assessing ourselves and how we operate with the given mechanics. We are able to change more and adapt to the tools we use. If we are unable to adapt to our chosen tools, then we should choose different tools. Our tools may be adaptable to a certain extent, but consider the factory firearm and it's mechanics to be the best available to the largest percentage of the firearm using population. Change one thing at a time and you'll get there. Change two things at once, and you'll be dismayed for a long time. Change everything at once and your down the road to the unknown and forever fighting your way back to where you began.

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    Member Array JVD85's Avatar
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    When I'm helping new shooters (bow, rifle, pistol, anything), I find that a lot of them lean back at the waist. Might want to check to make sure she is leaning slightly forward at the waist. This might help.

    My opinion...
    JVD
    John VanDusen

    "Whether it's a football game or an IED attack, you play EXACTLY how your practice."

    "Put your trust in God, and keep your powder dry." ~Oliver Cromwell

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    Member Array greenLED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rollo View Post
    - How exactly do you explain to someone how to correct limp wristing? "Hold the gun tighter"? I can't reall come up with a good way to phrase it.
    Could be a lot of things. However, since you brought up "limp wristing"... Holding the gun tighter won't fix things because limp wristing is not exactly about the wrist, but rather the entirety of a person's shooting stance. Watch the way she holds the gun, how are her arms/elbows? Does she anticipate the recoil? Does she flinch as she shoots? Lots of things to look out for. Best to try to diagnose one thing at a time (worked for me to do it that way).
    If handguns cause crime, mine are deffective - Ted Nugent

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    Senior Member Array rljohns's Avatar
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    I had problems with limp wristing. I was shooting a P229 .40 S&W. It would try to cycle and leave about a half inch of brass showing and not return to battery. I noticed another guy shooting with us had his own reloads and it was like he had a one shot manual Glock. He had down loaded so much he was having to rack after each shot. So bottom line it could be either one.

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    Member Array Gunner69's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced that its a "limp wristing" issue. While it could be the OP states that they were shooting reloads that had a min. charge. In short barreled auto's they tend to had stouter recoils springs and need a little more oomph to get the slide to cycle.

    The one thing that you can do to help her out is to teach her or show her some Youtube videos that teach a thumbs forward grip, not only does that reduce muzzle flip but it helps prevent limp wristing in the process.
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    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
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    "Could ammo have been a problem? We were shooting reloads and my dad uses the minimum powder load required. I just ordered 500 rounds of factory ammo and will test this next range session but am wondering your thoughts."

    Never test a gun with low powered economy ammo , you can't determine
    reliability OR functionality that way.

    Limp wristing may have contributed to the problem.
    -------
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    It may have been the ammo, but you said you had no problem, so you can't discount limp wristing on her part. Every body has a slightly different hold, and it can cause group displacement. Evidently her hold and trigger work put her in the black, so that's not the problem. Limp wristing is more of a muscle memory sort of thing rather than a muscle strength issue. I have auto newbies hold out their hand, with or without a gun, and lightly tap the outer edge upward with their off hand. Repeated taps with increasing force teach the proper muscle/tendon skill to lock the wrist to the forearm. I leave the elbows slightly bent to absorb the recoil. Make sure she wears glasses, a ball cap, and a turtleneck for the limp wristed hot brass that will find her forehead or a more inconvenient place down her neck. It sounds like now you're going to be burning up a lot more ammo. Congrats.
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    Member Array TSKnight's Avatar
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    My two bits worth:

    I'm not a trainer here but I am guessing that because I had no issues and she did that she is probably having limp wrist issues. Since I have never encountered this issue before I am at a bit of a loss. I have a couple questions pertaining to it.

    -Could ammo have been a problem? We were shooting reloads and my dad uses the minimum powder load required. I just ordered 500 rounds of factory ammo and will test this next range session but am wondering your thoughts.

    IMO, Yes. Ammo can cause feeding issues with semi-autos.

    -Are some guns more sensitive to limp wristing then others?

    Yes again. I have a physical disability that causes me to "limp wrist". My S&W 3914, 5906, and Browning HP were affected the most with frequent FTF. The only semi-autos I have that don't seem to have FTF for me is my Ruger P89DC and Beretta 21A.

    - How exactly do you explain to someone how to correct limp wristing? "Hold the gun tighter"? I can't reall come up with a good way to phrase it.

    It has more to do with overall stance than it does grip. The basic idea is having a solid shooting platform from top to bottom. Practice "building" a basic platform and then work on that in many/varied positions (standing, kneeling, sitting, behind cover, strong/weak hand, etc).

    Any help on this issue would be most useful. I am glad she has gotten over her fear of semi's but don't want to arm her with one if it's not going to be reliable for her.

    Glad to hear that. IMO a gun that doesn't work when you need it is worse than not having one at all.
    My personal solution was to go back to a wheel gun(S&W 36) as my primary CC weapon for the reliability factor. If my life is on the line, I want it to go "BANG" every time I squeeze the trigger.
    Democracy:
    Two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
    Freedom:
    A well armed lamb contesting the vote.

  11. #10
    Member Array Rayman's Avatar
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    I had a similar issue with my gf and my M&P9. I have been shooting it with zero issues. Then when she shot it, she had multiple FTFs. Figured she was limp wristing it. After a few mags of practice, problem was solved.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array Rollo's Avatar
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    Well, I ordered 500 rounds of 9mm yesterday so I am hoping it will be here by friday so that we can have another go at the range. that will at least allow me to rule ammo out.
    -It is a seriously scary thought that there are subsets of American society that think being intellectual is a BAD thing...

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