This is a discussion on What do you do for Post Draw Protection? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tmizzi I sure did. .... “We do cover reasonable acts committed to protect persons or property.” .... Sounds like the answer I ...
Got back a non-answer something like "That's a case-by-case determination."
I wrote back, "Can you point me to cases were the court found an policy holder's actions warranted damages be awarded and you found those same actions "reasonable" and paid the resulting damages?
Never hear back.
Of course, it could be a State-by-State thing or an Insurance Co.-by-Insurance Co thing.
Hope you have what you need, if you ever need it.
I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.
I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.
Veni, Vidi, Velcro
Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater
Steering back to the original question a moment...
I have pre paid legal (FWIW) and a lawyer cousin (who I'm sure would charge me full price!).
"Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18
Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
Paramedics With Guns Scare People!
I am a licensed attorney in California who practices in both the criminal and civil areas. I have been doing this for 14 years now. My clients pay me by the hour.
Most rates (not necessarily mine) are around $350 per hour. Some are higher, some lower but $350 is around the norm. Most cases through trial take around 150-250 billable hours. Complex cases can be double that.
$350 X 150hrs = $52,500 plus fees and costs (like expert witnesses and filing / copy costs, deposition costs, etc)
$350 X 250hrs = $87,500 (plus those dern costs and things.)
Expert witness fees can equal $1000 per DAY. $10,000 for costs is not uncommon.
So, you do the math and see if your finances can stand the strain of paying for your legal defense.
As for those who think that legal advise is worthless because it comes on an internet forum, well you can hope that you are going to be one of the lucky ones who never has to use their EDC. That way you can prepare your "card" and carry it every day and never have to explain why you have a premeditated "excuse" for the shooting.
If, OTOH, you aren't so lucky, please don't call me . . . I'm busy.
I was going to make a comment as to the level of civility on this thread until I realized how it involved lawyers.
I'm just kidding, some of my best friends are lawyers...
That which does not kill us leaves us broken and bleeding...
Don’t mess with the guy who can barely stand up. His remaining options for self-defense don't include your survival.
Convenire Volui Spectatus
The fact you got stabbed, knocked out, your intestines removed and stitched up, put back in, sewn up and stapled shut is your fault.
You don't want to talk...shut up.
Every expert on this matter who I have read advises that, should you be involved in a defensive encounter, you should be the first person to call 9-1-1.
Since every call to 9-1-1 dispatch is recorded, and can later be used in court, you are (in effect) talking to the police anyway.
For those who wish to follow Masaad Ayoob’s advice, but who feel uncomfortable carrying a piece of paper to jog your memory, I offer the following mnemonic device:
A – Attack – “That man attacked me, I was in fear for my life.”
C – Criminal Complaint – “I will sign a criminal complaint.”
E – Evidence – “The evidence is there.”
S – Searches – “I do not consent to any searches.”
A – Attorney – “I do not wish to make any further statements until I have contacted an attorney.”
W – Witnesses – “The witnesses are over there.”
I hope some find this helpful.
If you have an issue with this advice, take it up with Masaad - it's his advice, not mine...though I happen to agree with it.
As far as the (lack) of civility on this thread - it is simply inexcusable - I don't care how brilliant some of the legal minds here think they are.
Don't let this apply to you - Who you are is speaking so loudly, I can't hear what you are saying.
What you say isn't half as important as how you say it.
I hope this is taken in the positive spirit in which it was intended...but I won't hold my breath.
I'm done with this thread...carry on.
The more good folks carry guns, the fewer shots the crazies can get off.
www.armedcitizensnetwork.org - member
Weren't you done with this thread a while ago?
Your advice works great, provided it's a simple, clean encounter with minimal complications.
It starts to fall apart when you add chaos, confusion, injury and all the other factors of real life come in.
For example...a witness sees he end of the encounter, were you run a burst up the guy's chest into his face...but didn't see the begining when he and his pal (who is laying on the ground with a crushed throat courtesy of your textbook perfect uppercut) grabbed you and tried to take your keys and force you into the car so they could take your money, car & life...
You point out a witness...
Many times witnesses either a) didn't see nothing & know less, b) saw, but don't want to get involved, or c) saw "the whole thing" and will tell the police the truth about what they saw...
Even if it isn't what actually occured.
You turned a case were it could have been your story about how you were assaulted by homeys Alpha & Bravo into a double homicide with a witness stating how he saw you ice that kid who was holding his hands up (his hands were up because you eye-jabbed him, then elbowed his nose, and his hands were holding his face after you pushed him away to get space to draw)
Nothing you need to say can't wait an hour or four till a lawyer gets to you and starts doing damage control.
You don't have an attorney who will come to you in the event of an emergency...
Guess you aught to do some research NOW before you are looking for one on the fly.
You're all probably familiar with these two cases of too much cooperation, and the reverse. I think in the latter case the F troop got a bit vindictive.
Prosecution as Punishment: The Troubling Case of Albert Kwan
Quality=Cor Bon DPX also IMHO
ps: Lets just have fun. Can't we all just get along? Nothing personal, educational.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95