FLA non-resident permits no longer recognized by LA

This is a discussion on FLA non-resident permits no longer recognized by LA within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Okay I had this info sent to me, BTW I'm just the messenger here....... I didn't make these changes, I'm just doing the typing. For ...

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Thread: FLA non-resident permits no longer recognized by LA

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    FLA non-resident permits no longer recognized by LA

    Okay I had this info sent to me, BTW I'm just the messenger here....... I didn't make these changes, I'm just doing the typing.

    For Florida residents--- Your cc permits are still good in LA, and LA cc permits are still good in Florida. This affects only anyone that has a Florida non-resident permit. For instance, a resident of Louisiana, or some other state, applies and receives a non-resident permit from Florida. It is/was popular in Louisiana because it was cheaper in the long run and was recognized in more states.

    Here is the gist of what I recently received:

    1. FL non-resident permits are no longer valid in LA effective immediately. THERE IS NO GRANDFATHERING. YOUR CURRENT FL NON-RESIDENT PERMIT IS NO LONGER HONORED IN LA. The agreement was signed this week.

    2. Utah reciprocity agreements are being reviewed. The same basic rules will apply same as FL.

    3. Both amendments will be posted on the LSP CHP New Info" link when the Utah final decision is received. Anticipate this to happen in the next 1-2 weeks.

    4. Websites may not be up-to-date on this change yet.

    5. It seems the reason for this change is that it is possible for someone with a local criminal history to apply out-of-state and have some degree of success in avoiding having their entire criminal history exposed. IOW some have used the non-resident permit to circumvent a in-state criminal background check.

    6. This information is from the Louisiana State Police who oversee the permit regulations. If I had a non-resident FL permit, and traveled to Texas I presume my permit would be okay there, and in the same token I presume that a Texas citizen who had a non-resident FL permit would be okay in Texas, but it would not be okay in Louisiana. IANAL

    7. Ya'll please don't start boycotting our state, this has nothing to do with Nagin, Blanco or New Orleans. We have a good pro-gun governor, rated #2/50 state by the NRA, and the State Police I know, and their Permit Dept, is definitely pro-gun. Inconvenient as it may be they are trying to keep concealed weapon permits from those with criminal backgrounds, who wouldn't ordinarily qualify for a permit.
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    It seems the reason for this change is that it is possible for someone with a local criminal history to apply out-of-state and have some degree of success in avoiding having their entire criminal history exposed.
    That argument is bogus. Relevant convictions, outstanding warrants, etc are entered into FBI's NCIC system, and therefore would be just as visible to another state's issuing authority as they are to the folks in Louisiana.

    Sounds to me like the Louisiana State Police is bitter that they are losing out on $$$$ to other states that offer non-resident licenses at lower cost. I'm betting that this policy change is simply an issue of revenue generation

    EDIT:

    I dont buy it. Something just didnt sound right, so I looked into it. From what I've found, such a change would require passage of a bill by the Louisiana state legislature and subsequently signed by the Governor, not simply an administrative change of policy by the state police. According to R.S. 40:1379.3(T)(1), permits issued by a state with a standing reciprocity agreement with Louisiana are good in Louisiana. The above cited state law makes no allowance for the Louisiana State Police to arbitrarily revise the reciprocity policy.
    Last edited by Grant48; October 17th, 2009 at 12:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    ....
    5. It seems the reason for this change is that it is possible for someone with a local criminal history to apply out-of-state and have some degree of success in avoiding having their entire criminal history exposed. IOW some have used the non-resident permit to circumvent a in-state criminal background check.
    ....
    Can't speak to LA and their decision.

    However, as I understand the concern voiced in Utah it wasn't that the "application process" missing a criminal history in another State at the time of approving the application, as much as someone who had an OK criminal history when they applied and got the permit but then subsequently having a conviction, restraining order, etc in their home State.

    Most States have a data-base cross-checks of all new entries into that State's own criminal history data-base against their own "permit/license" data-base, for the purpose of revocation.

    If a citizen of State "A" has a "permit/license" from State "B" and has an incident posted to the criminal history data-base of State "A" it get reported to the Feds but not to State "B", so they can revoke the "permit/license."
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    Member Array cbigclarke's Avatar
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    this would really suck if true. i travel from TX to LA everyday
    jersey no more.. im a texan now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant48 View Post
    That argument is bogus. Relevant convictions, warrants, etc are entered into FBI's NCIC system, and therefore would be just as visible to another state's issuing authoriy as they are to the folks in Louisiana.
    I would agree with you on this, BUT the system isn't perfect. LEO agencies and DA's can be slow about entering info into the NCIC system, or maybe it doesn't get entered at all, so backgrounds can/do fall through the cracks. I believe the most thorough background checks are done within the state of residence using NCIC and the database systems that are exclusive to the resident state.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant48 View Post
    Sounds to me like the Louisiana State Police is bitter that they are losing out on $$$$ to other states that offer non-resident licenses at lower cost. I'm betting that this policy change is simply an issue of revenue generation
    I think that's been a pretty popular response. Money orders are made out to the Louisiana Dept of Public Safety and Corrections and I understand it goes into general funds of the state. The income from the permits does not help or hurt the LSP budget. Since it's public record it would be pretty easy to follow those funds. Here is their email........concealed_handguns@dps.state.la.us


    Quote Originally Posted by Grant48 View Post
    EDIT:

    I dont buy it. Something just didnt sound right, so I looked into it. From what I've found, such a change would require passage of a bill by the Louisiana state legislature and subsequently signed by the Governor, not simply an administrative change of policy by the state police. According to R.S. 40:1379.3(T)(1), permits issued by a state with a standing reciprocity agreement with Louisiana are good in Louisiana. The above cited state law makes no allowance for the Louisiana State Police to arbitrarily revise the reciprocity policy.
    Good luck with all of that, and you may be right but I bet it would take a court case to resolve it. I don't have the time, money or want the hassle of dealing with a loophole. I really woudn't care about being arrested for having the wrong permit and sitting in jail awhile over this. To me it's just easier to maintain the permit issued by my own state, besides I personally think that non-residence reciprocity will diminish among all states. I'm not necessarily saying I'm supporting that, I'm just saying I think it'll go that direction
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Good luck with all of that, and you may be right but I bet it would take a court case to resolve it. I don't have the time, money or want the hassle of dealing with a loophole. I really woudn't care about being arrested for having the wrong permit and sitting in jail awhile over this. To me it's just easier to maintain the permit issued by my own state, besides I personally think that non-residence reciprocity will diminish among all states. I'm not necessarily saying I'm supporting that, I'm just saying I think it'll go that direction
    Oh I agree, I dont think any sane person would volunteer to be a test case. However, I was simply pointing out that it seems as though the State Police have overstepped their bounds, because the law as it is written grants them no authority to take such action as outlined in your original post.

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    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    If it's for the reason stated, why just single out Florida? Why not all states that issue non resident permits?
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    If it's for the reason stated, why just single out Florida? Why not all states that issue non resident permits?
    We'll have to see where this goes. If the OP is true, it sounds like a money play. They want LA residents to have LA permits in order to carry there. But they can simply just require LA residents to carry on the resident permits only. If they won't accept FL non-resident permits AT ALL, then non-LA residents whose state does not have reciprocity w/LA is basically screwed.
    Keep in mind a number of states will only let RESIDENTS carry there under a RESIDENT permit. There are only a few states(MI,CO,FL,NH,ME) that require a RESIDENT permit from a reciprocal state only.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
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    I think it's about money. They just want people to buy their non-resident permit. Same b.s. about Nevada dropping Utah earlier this year.

    5. It seems the reason for this change is that it is possible for someone with a local criminal history to apply out-of-state and have some degree of success in avoiding having their entire criminal history exposed. IOW some have used the non-resident permit to circumvent a in-state criminal background check.
    This is also bogus, as stated in previous posts. My brother, a resident of AZ, applied for his CCW. Well, turns out he had forgotten an unpaid ticket in UT, so he got denied. He had to pay his UT ticket, then AZ went ahead and issued his permit. So, if UT and AZ can work it out over a stupid traffic ticket, can't LA work it out with FL?
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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    Member Array Bashful's Avatar
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    Here's the link to the Louisiana State Police web site...

    "Effective immediately, Louisiana no longer honors non-resident permits issued by the State of Florida."

    LSP - Sections - Concealed Handgun Permit Unit
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    and others....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant48 View Post
    Sounds to me like the Louisiana State Police is bitter that they are losing out on $$$$ to other states that offer non-resident licenses at lower cost. I'm betting that this policy change is simply an issue of revenue generation
    Probably true, and not unusual. Remember Florida (One of the most popular non-res States) doesn't accept any other states non-resident permit, and it's been that way.

    My only fear is that this trend catches on and ends up screwing people that live in non-issue states. This will mean that folks like me (currently living in MD) will not be able to carry since the cost for getting individual permits for every State visited would be cost prohibitive.
    Rick

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    I know how this sucks, especially for Non-Resident FL people.

    However, I live in WV, recently obtained a Non-Res NH permit, which BTW they don't recognize at all, only those states they have reciprocity with. WV and NH have no reciprocity, so even though I have a valid NH permit, I can't carry in that state simply because they issue but do not recognize. WV used to do that, but now they at least will recognize the non-resident permits of states WV recognizes, this includes FL.

    The state to state laws just are not fair, but what do we do?
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    Just another good reason to have a federal license good in all 50 states and territories.
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    It's doubtful any of our issues, concerns, or accusations about this can be resolved here on this forum. I'm a big believer in writing letters and calling politicians to express my concerns and it is effective. I'm afraid in this case it's not going to work this time.

    To me, the least that could have happened is giving a "grace period", maybe 90 days or whatever, before the non-resident FL would not be accepted. I've been hearing rumblings about this for a month or so, but it has caught a lot of folks blind-sided. I'm sure there are quite a few Louisiana residents walking around here today with a Fla non-resident and they assume they are valid.

    I don't necessarily like being the bearer of bad news, but I posted this primary for one big reason--- to give a head's up to our DC members. I know it's a head's up you don't like (I don't like it) but it could be worse for you NOT to know.

    Now if venting about it being bogus, money deal, crooked politicians, not fair, or whatever helps you feel better, that's fine.......venting relieves pressure.

    I'm afraid what's done is done though.

    I just noticed how much my signature line applies to this.........
    Last edited by ppkheat; October 17th, 2009 at 12:18 PM. Reason: spelling
    Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ppkheat View Post
    Ya'll please don't start boycotting our state, this has nothing to do with Nagin, Blanco or New Orleans. We have a good pro-gun governor, rated #2/50 state by the NRA, and the State Police I know, and their Permit Dept, is definitely pro-gun. Inconvenient as it may be they are trying to keep concealed weapon permits from those with criminal backgrounds, who wouldn't ordinarily qualify for a permit.
    Boycott ?
    No.
    Become a tourist sheeple at the mercy local thugs and dependant upon local LEO's for my familys protection?
    Oh Hell NO !
    Nagin, Blanco and New Orleans nothing to do with this ?
    At one time I would have considered them a blemish upon a outherwise pretty contance but I now have to consider them a spreading cancer. I hope you can find a cure
    I will travel no place that will not allow me to protect mine ,if that means I can not leave ID,MT,WY and UT so be it. If that means I can not leave my house thats ok I know its house law that we all pack.
    Never approach a Bull from the front , a Horse from the rear or a Fool from any direction!

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