Guns in schools - Page 4

Guns in schools

This is a discussion on Guns in schools within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The bottom line is there's a perception problem. Guns are most often portrayed in a very negative light, causing people to view the mere presence ...

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 66

Thread: Guns in schools

  1. #46
    VIP Member
    Array oneshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    +42.893612,-082.710236 , Mi.
    Posts
    8,192
    The bottom line is there's a perception problem. Guns are most often portrayed in a very negative light, causing people to view the mere presence of a gun as extremely high-risk, ignoring the very real benefits and very real risk of not having one. Since most people don't have an extremely-high risk management policy, the logical conclusion is that guns should not be present.
    NCRonB

    What these Illogical buffoons take out of the equation every time is the fact that the people who are intent on homicidal tendancies involving schoolchildren
    do not abide by the law in the first place.


    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

    Washington didn't use his freedom of speech to defeat the British, He shot them!

    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." -- Ernest Benn


  2. #47
    New Member Array drjoker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Richardson
    Posts
    5

    My High School Has a Gun Range....

    Plano Senior High School has a posh indoor gun range, six lane rifle bay. They use 22 cal bolt action remingtons and anschutz rifles. Never any incident there, why? Because kids there have been exposed to safe firearms handling education, unlike schools without a gun range.

  3. #48
    VIP Member
    Array DaveH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Posts
    5,036
    Quote Originally Posted by drjoker View Post
    Plano Senior High School has a posh indoor gun range, six lane rifle bay. They use 22 cal bolt action remingtons and anschutz rifles. Never any incident there, why? Because kids there have been exposed to safe firearms handling education, unlike schools without a gun range.


    Wish gun safety & marksmanship was part of every States core curriculum
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  4. #49
    Member Array JVD85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    L'Anse, MI
    Posts
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie B View Post
    We probably should delinate between K~12 and colleges.

    In my heart, I would like to be able to carry in my kid's K~12 school. Logically, 98% of the folks in my OH CCW class 5 years ago made me shiver in fear - they were very inexperienced, and were very devoid of any common sense.
    SAME THING!!!!! I had a lady (I think here BF was loding her mags for her) fire a mag of 9mm through her .40! They went bang, but didn't cycle....that probebly could have been bad....

    As a teacher in a district of about 55 teachers, I think 2, maybe 3 would carry (or even have permits).

    I agree to the "extra" training. Possibly some training with the local PD who would be responding in the event of an emergency. Approved in a CLOSED SESSION school board meeting....keep it on a need to know basis. I don't see it happening.

    Colleges....if you have a CPL....you should be able to carry. Again...it will bring guns on campus, but I think that people assume if they allow it, EVERY one will have a pistol in their backpack. That's not the case. A small percentage of studnets will carry, and protect the flock, even though the flock is oblivious....

    (Off the soap-box)
    John VanDusen

    "Whether it's a football game or an IED attack, you play EXACTLY how your practice."

    "Put your trust in God, and keep your powder dry." ~Oliver Cromwell

  5. #50
    Member Array mamakennedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Rexburg, ID
    Posts
    266
    Ya know, with all the recent sexual misconduct cases in my area on the part of teachers toward students I'm starting to wish that all teachers and administrators would apply for CC, it would at least weed out some of the nut cases.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Naugatuck, CT
    Posts
    2,406
    Quote Originally Posted by JVD85 View Post
    SAME THING!!!!! I had a lady (I think here BF was loding her mags for her) fire a mag of 9mm through her .40! They went bang, but didn't cycle....that probebly could have been bad....
    I don't buy that at all.

    The bore diameter of a .40S&W is larger than the outside diameter of a 9mm round. Even if the magazines are the same size and you could get the round to feed, when the slide was released, the unfired round would simply shoot all the way through the chamber and fall out the end of the barrel - still unfired.

    Just to confirm, I loaded my .40 magazine with dummy 9mm rounds. Only twice out of ten tries could I get it to feed without a jam, and both those times the rounds simply slid through the barrel.

    On the outside chance the round DID manage to chamber and fire, the result would be a ruptured case and a massive amount of gas released due to an unsupported case. Most likely the magazine would be blown out the bottom of the mag well, the slide damaged and very likely the woman's hand seriously injured.

    Your scenario, especially firing the whole mag full, is simply not possible.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,933

    Unhappy Wow... just wow

    This is a response from a guy who claims he is for the 2nd Amendment We got into an argument about the constitutionality of barring guns at school... this was his response... it churns my stomach. Too bad he is not aware of the Supreme Court case about the 2nd Amendment that is going to be heard in February.

    Actually it is constitutional. The bill of rights was originally intended to apply ONLY to the federal government, not the states. After the 14th amendment was passed MOST of the rights guaranteed under the bill of rights were incorporated through it to apply to the states.

    However, the Supreme Court held in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886) that the Second Amendment limited only the power of Congress to control firearms, not the state. Thus, the Second Amendment wasn't incorporated in the 14th amendment. The state thus, due to the Tenth Amendment, could control firearms. School property is property of the district and the state, thus under the Tenth Amendment they can restrict gun possession.

    If your position is correct, then why the need for a conceal and carry license? Isn't your state acting unconstitutionally by making you pay a fee, take a class, and get a license to conceal and carry? Why can't you walk into your governor's mansion brandishing a gun? Why can't you walk into Congress, or hell, the White House with a gun in your hand?

    The point is you're just flat out wrong, Pro. Your interpretation of the Second Amendment couldn't be more misguided and incorrect. The federal and especially the state CAN tell you whether you can carry a gun onto public property. You can still carry a gun all you want, your right to keep and bears arms aren't being infringed, you just can't walk onto school property. Just like you can't walk into a courthouse with one. Just like you can't walk into Congress with one. Just like you can't walk into the White House with one.

  8. #53
    Member Array mamakennedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Rexburg, ID
    Posts
    266
    that guy needs to go read the constitutional documents and the dictionary. Or...
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

  9. #54
    Member Array JVD85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    L'Anse, MI
    Posts
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Just to confirm, I loaded my .40 magazine with dummy 9mm rounds. Only twice out of ten tries could I get it to feed without a jam, and both those times the rounds simply slid through the barrel.

    On the outside chance the round DID manage to chamber and fire, the result would be a ruptured case and a massive amount of gas released due to an unsupported case.
    Correct. Out of her full magazine, she only managed to fire 3 rounds. She brought a ruptured case (Balloned at the mouth and split about 1/2 way) back to the table. When it fired, the pistol did not cycle at all, she had to rack the slide to get it to eject. Most of her rounds ended up on the ground, unfired.

    I looked back at what I wrote.....Sorry for the confusion.
    John VanDusen

    "Whether it's a football game or an IED attack, you play EXACTLY how your practice."

    "Put your trust in God, and keep your powder dry." ~Oliver Cromwell

  10. #55
    Member Array NCRonB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    55
    The state thus, due to the Tenth Amendment, could control firearms. School property is property of the district and the state, thus under the Tenth Amendment they can restrict gun possession.
    People often forget (or never knew) that the states have constitutions as well. Section 21 of the PA constitution states "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defense of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

    The NC constitution has wording the same as the US 2nd Amendment, but that's followed by language that permits the state to make laws regulating the carrying of concealed weapons.

    Even if the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to the states, that doesn't mean state law can ignore its own constitution.

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arapahoe County CO
    Posts
    1,798
    Quote Originally Posted by logan View Post
    The only way a school would be safe by not allowing guns would be if there were armed security guards at each entrance with metal detectors, checking every person walking into the building.
    Even if all possible entrances are guarded, insane people like the VT or Columbine shooters would simply start their rampage at the entrance. Unless the guard positions are fortified like a pill box, the shooter would get through.

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Naugatuck, CT
    Posts
    2,406
    Quote Originally Posted by JVD85 View Post
    Correct. Out of her full magazine, she only managed to fire 3 rounds. She brought a ruptured case (Balloned at the mouth and split about 1/2 way) back to the table. When it fired, the pistol did not cycle at all, she had to rack the slide to get it to eject. Most of her rounds ended up on the ground, unfired.

    I looked back at what I wrote.....Sorry for the confusion.
    I'm mystified as to how it fired at all - there's nothing to hold the round in the chamber in the first place. Even if the mouth hung up on the leading edge of the chamber, that's still waaaay to far for the firing pin to reach the primer. I think someone is yanking your (our?) chain.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  13. #58
    PM
    PM is offline
    Senior Member Array PM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    662
    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
    All you need to do is point them to the Israeli example; many years ago, terrorists began attacking Israeli schools, so the Israelis began arming themselves. Now there are teachers and administrators who pack weapons in the schools and they know how to use them. The result:

    You don't hear about a whole lot of Israeli schools being shot up by anyone anymore......
    The Israeli's also have a mandated Two year term in the military where I will bet everyone learns very well how to hit COM with M16, shotgun and 9mm. They also have a very good style Mixed Martial Aarts for H2H combat. So, if our school personel can shoot the same scores as the Isralei scool personel I am all for it!!

  14. #59
    Member Array Chiller2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    262
    Teachers and students in most high schools bring a weapon that is more deadly than a gun to school every day. it kills more people every year than firearms by a wide margin A car or truck. I could kill or injure more people faster with a car than I ever could with a gun.

  15. #60
    Member Array JVD85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    L'Anse, MI
    Posts
    63
    [QUOTE=Majorlk;1348331]I'm mystified as to how it fired at all - QUOTE]

    Got me....saw it happen...not saying it should have...just saying it did.
    John VanDusen

    "Whether it's a football game or an IED attack, you play EXACTLY how your practice."

    "Put your trust in God, and keep your powder dry." ~Oliver Cromwell

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Schools banning Tag?
    By packinnova in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: August 30th, 2007, 09:17 PM
  2. Training Schools
    By wareagleky in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 21st, 2007, 09:05 AM
  3. Schools
    By matdicdad in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: May 16th, 2007, 11:42 PM
  4. ccw in schools
    By brian77 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: October 2nd, 2006, 05:54 AM
  5. Post the schools you know of!
    By APachon in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: December 13th, 2005, 06:51 PM

Search tags for this page

guns in schools forum

Click on a term to search for related topics.

» Log in

User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!

» DefensiveCarry Sponsors