Wal Mart of all places.
This is a discussion on The Wal-Mart parking lot- Future Victims? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wal Mart of all places....
Wal Mart of all places.
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After reading the responses - how's this....wait until LEO's arrive and control car, then proceed in, find the woman....and tell her that her car just got stolen and the police are out there.....
She'd deserve the coronary......
NRA Life Member
"But if they don't exist, how can a man see them?"
"You may think I'm pompous, but actually I'm pedantic... let me explain the difference."
"Carry the battle to them. Don't let them bring it to you. Put them on the defensive and don't ever apologize for anything."
I was a store manager for Vons/Safeway for many years and have seen it all. I remember one time a parent had left a baby in a car seat in a car parked right at the curb in front of the market in the summer heat. A window was cracked...but that is not enough in Fresno. (~100-110' in summer)
A citizen noticed the baby and came in and we repeatedly paged the owner over the PA system with no response. We then called the cops. The citizen was so irate and concerned over the situation that he got a crow bar out of his trunk and smashed the opposite window in the car to rescue the baby.
Cops arrived and praised the citizen. Said that's the first thing they would have done. Within about 10 minutes the "mother" came out of an adjacent store and threw a fit over the ruckus and the smashed window. The cops chewed her out and told her to forget the window or they would arrest her for child endangerment. That calmed her down real quick. By the end, she was appologizing to everyone.
Hmmmmm.... "Child Protective Services"- Putting Children Where They Belong: With Pedophiles, Drunks and Druggies For The Past 100 Years.
Sorry, I've worked more than a few peds "events", and have rarely seen good, ultimately, from CPS(I have two relatives who have/are working with CPS in SE states-even they aren't happy with much of anything in "the System."). Yes, there are great foster parents (mine were, on occassion-"foster parents", that is! ), but an awful lot of bad apples in that baggie....
I can also see where the lady might have few alternatives open to her(domestic violence, newly single-parent, job transfer/no family), or as is the concensus, she is simply a moron. I would be most inclined to have a personal interaction(maybe volunteer my wife to start a, "what a cute baby", conversation) and offer some community/church options, unless she proved to be a Moron, in which case I'd be calling PD.
People every day deal with screwed up situations. Sometimes they aren't thinking. Calling the cops and having the children removed by CPS is the worst thing you can do. Think about the trauma the children will suffer not having the mother they know araound...even for a few days. I speak from experience, my ex-wife was a real piece of work after we split, but the last thing that crossed my mind was having the kids dumped into the system. Eventually it worked out and they live with me...and they are adjusting to normal life.
The government...in most situations...is not the best option for raising children.
Think how you would feel if somebody called CPS on you, maybe because they saw you teaching your 10 year old how to shoot...whatever. They will traumatize your children, then start asking questions. "Temporary" custody of CPS means going to court to get them back, so you are talking at least a month.
Would you want your kids in the custody of strangers for a month?
I am not defending the woman's actions...just stating that there are less extreme options to resolving her stupidity.
They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
Previously known as "cjm5874"
I've worked plenty of retail and have had to chase down unattented, ignored children as they wandered outside the store, played with sharp hardware items, and so on. The parents are completely ignorant and are not humiliated by attempts to bring them to their senses. In fact, even though I try to be as polite as I can at "suggesting" they supervise their children for their kids' safety, they ruffle up and give their best how dare you tell me how to raise my children.
I'd call the police and let them handle her. And then I'd call the local news station and let them have a bite of her, too.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
I've skipped over most of the answers; I apologize if this is a repeat.
She likely left the car running for the AC or heat. Ok, no biggy. But, the CO and threat of attack is.
I would park across from the vehicle (or where I could best view it) and call the police. Try to stay anonymous, but do something. If I couldn't stay anonymous then so be it.
I'm going to join the minority here and +1 TI Carry and his comments. I think he hit the nail on the head.
"You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.
<----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)
What this mom did is also illegal in California. At least in my county the cops would give her a good warning and send her on her way. If she did it more than once, then it is off to the county jail with her. I would not get involved by talking to the individual. There are several reasons for it.
First of all, you don't know who this woman is or how she will respond to your "friendly" suggestions. She could go completely nuts and then what kind of situation have you put yourself in. I have read too many cases of people going completely nuts to cops who have official authority. I can't imagine how some people would react to the average citizen.
Second, it is a crime and as such she is responsible not only to her kids but to society in general. Laws like this were passed explicitly because parents left children in cars. These children were not only endangered but they died. I think most in law enforcement would agree that some of the best tips, calls, evidence, etc. comes from concerned citizens.
Finally, calling the cops and letting them sort out the situation is the best possible outcome for the mother herself. If it is an honest mistake or whatever you want to call it, odds are she will never do it again. However, if she doesn't care, mouths off, and acts unconcerned then she is exactly the kind of person who deserves to think about what she did (almost like a toddler) as a guest of the county jail.
That may seem harsh, but as a DA I see way too many cases where parents engage in the most idiotic behavior imaginable. I say if there is a law that says hey, you can't do that and not suffer any consequences, it is up to observant citizens, as well as law enforcement, to see that the law is enforced.
I work in law enforcement and in this day and age I would like to see you call the police, provide information and wait on officer to arrive. There are way to many hot heads that do not take advice very well. After all they are too dumb to know that children left alone in a vehicle are just so much bait for some people. Be right and be safe.
Philip L. McCleary
Security via CCW
and a lot of practice
Dispatchers have the best jobs
we tell the police where to go and they have
to do it. Policy manual says so.
Mom arrested after leaving child in car
"An Indianapolis police officer was surprised to find an infant left alone in a car outside an Indianapolis supermarket Monday.
But when the boy's mother left the store at 4200 S. East St. without her son, he arrested the 29-year-old Southside woman. Indianapolis Police Officer Paul S. Humphrey spotted the boy, wearing only a T-shirt and soiled diaper, sitting unrestrained in a car seat about 10:30 a.m. Monday, according to a police report.
Humphrey opened the 1990 Honda Accord's unlocked door and took the 4-month-old boy to his patrol car to wait for his parent, police said. Aimee Ward, 1600 block of Charing Cross Drive, returned after about 15 minutes inside the store, police said. She got back into the car -- and drove away.
Humphrey stopped her as she exited the parking lot and asked her "if there was anything she was missing," according to the report.
"Ms. Ward was totally oblivious to the fact that I had her child," Humphrey wrote.
Ward could not be reached for comment.
She faces an initial charge of child neglect and was freed on $3,500 bond, records show. The child was examined by medical personnel and placed into protective custody."
Luckily one of Indy's finest prevented the potential kidnapping oand/or death of this stupid 's child...
"An unarmed man can only flee from evil, and evil is not overcome by fleeing from it."
- Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC
We all have our perspectives and prejudices: Yes, I've had people go off on me, when I worked child-safety events with county EMS ("Say WHAT! I'm supposed to ........?!?! I'm not doing.,....RIGHT?!?!).
I've also worked an infant with identifiable knuckle and bite marks and had an officer refuse to take custody of the child (family attempting to leave AMA) because he had "plans after work", and he "didn't think it was nothin' like that". In his weighted medical opinion. Similar situations happened more than once, with more than one officer, at this department.
Bottom line: idiots abound, on both sides of the fence. If you don't feel comfortable interacting, call someone who should be. As mcclearypl said (to paraphrase) you don't need to get into a cat fight.