The Devil is in the DETAILS... - Page 2

The Devil is in the DETAILS...

This is a discussion on The Devil is in the DETAILS... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ExSoldier762 I do the same thing! Why oh WHY am I accused of being a blatant girl watcher by my daughter when ...

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  1. #16
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
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    Nov 2005
    Colorado at 14,650'
    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    I do the same thing! Why oh WHY am I accused of being a blatant girl watcher by my daughter when she's home on a vacation and has lunch with us..sometimes even my wife digs a subtle elbow into my ribs. I'm INNOCENT! I'm scanning the crowds for potential BG's! I can't help it if summertime in Miami FL makes women shed their clothes! And I'm not looking at THEM anyway! I'm so misunderstood!
    Yea! Same here! LOL!

  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Wayne's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
    Eugene, OR
    Another crowd disliker here. If I walk into a mall (which I haven't been in over a year) or a store that is crowded, I turn around and walk back out.

    During the holidays, I don't go anywhere. People will cram themselves elbow to elbow just to get the blue light special and have no clue what is going on around them.

    That's what I like about super stores (not just wally world) where you can go shopping at 4:30 in the morning so you don't have people breathing down your neck.

    Restuarants are kinda hard because most of the booths that allow you to have back to the wall and to see the door put my right hand side to the main floor area so I can't have it close to wall unless I switch it to the left hand side.


  3. #18
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    Aug 2005
    I am actually a bit opposite. I sit with my gunside to the aisle, and on the outside of the booth...reason? I want to be between any potential threat and my family if I have to draw, so I sit where I can get out of the bench, draw and move towards the target.
    They who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin

    Previously known as "cjm5874"

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
    Richmond VA
    What I find irritating...

    Unexpected "No Guns" signs, so I have to decide whether to disarm or break the law in order to finish an errand.

    That most methods of concealment that leave the weapon accessible look sloppy. I wish there were a way to carry the pistol of my choice IWB without having to wear layers or clothes that don't fit, or shirttails out, or blazers, or vests. The alternatives make drawing awkward or difficult.

    I'm tall. People are always asking me to reach things up high. I wish I could find a jacket that was long enough for me to reach all the way up without exposing my holster, but not so long that it looks like a car coat. I get really tired of holding my jacket down with one hand while I reach with the other.

    I'm tall. I wish I could just bend over to pick something up without having to worry about printing. Sometimes, kneeling isn't convenient. or for my size, draws unwelcome attention.

    Hollow plastic benches or seats, like at some fast food joints or public places, that really amplify the sound of your pistol tapping against the plastic.
    - Tom
    You have the power to donate life.

  5. #20
    Member Array crookcatchr's Avatar
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    Feb 2006
    Birmingham, AL
    Another Crowd hater here to. its one of the reasons I got out of Loss Prevention for a local retailer. Its amazing what people do during the holidays. Another reason I left was the no firearm on premises (sp?), broke that one regularly with mine in my truck. yes it was stated to not have one in the parking lot also. But what they did not know, did not hurt me.

    I to sit with my back to a wall or facing the front door of the restraunt. My wife knows this and its all good. whats funny is when me step father and I go eat together we almost fight over the same chair. But its all good there to cause we can watch each others back.

    Theres no such thing as owning to many guns.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Array .45acp's Avatar
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    Mar 2006
    Another here that dislikes crowds, sits near the back to see everyone coming in. Wife thinks it's odd but knows it's the way I am.

  7. #22
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    Array CopperKnight's Avatar
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    Mar 2006
    Spokane area, WA
    I'm with y'all. Crowds are just too much. Too many people to try to keep track of.
    In restaurants, my prime seat is in a booth, aisle seat, gun side in, view of entrance. Works better for concealability- I can even have the gun drawn and not be seen until I want to be seen that way.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

  8. #23
    PJH is offline
    Member Array PJH's Avatar
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    Dec 2005
    I, too, hate sitting with my back to the door. I've been this way since I was a teenager, LONG before I started to carry. My wife still finds it "silly", but humors me. If I am out with others, and for some reason don't get to pick my seat, I'm edgy for the whole meal.

    I always try to sit in a booth. Two issues:
    1. I still often get an audible "clunk" when sitting in the booth.
    2. While I would prefer my gun to the inside, it is often mutually exclusive with door-facing seat.


  9. #24
    Senior Member Array gddyup's Avatar
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    Jan 2006
    Derry, NH
    Anywhere I am I always try to get into a position where I can see as much as possible. I want to know who is coming and going and where they are coming and going from. I look everyone in the eye and determine where the threat may possibly come from if any at all. The best thing to get used to is to look around and know your surroundings regardless of where you are. In crowds, which I dislike as much as the rest of you, I try and remove myself from them to the best degree possible. I get to the side or away from the general body as much as I can. That gives me an opportunity to scan and get an idea as to the "mentality" of the grazers around me.

    My thought process everytime I leave the house is constant awareness. Not just look, but SEE what is going on around me. Not so much hear, but LISTEN to what is going on. Not so much think, but PREPARE for what might happen. Being one step ahead means being on equal footing if the SEHTF.

    "He is most free from danger, who, even when safe, is on his guard" -Publilious Syrus
    "You've never lived until you've almost died. For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the protected will never know" - T.R.

    <----My LT was unhappy that I did not have my PASS-Tag at that fire. But I found the body so he said he would overlook it. :)

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
    Nashville, TN
    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle
    I don't go near a mall between the week before Thanksgiving and the week after New Years. During that period if I can't get it off the internet...... it doesn't get got!!
    Amen Brother Rick! Along with the crowds, it's just too damned loud for me to be comfortable. If I can't listen for trouble as well as look for it I stay in condition orange until I'm not only outta the mall, but outta the lot and back on the main road.

    As far as eating out, as much as I like Wendy's and places like that I hate those glass walls. No matter where you sit there's a window behind you. Unless we're travelling, my wife and I just hit the drive-thru and take it back home. When going to better restaurants with the family (my in-laws go out to celebrate ALL birthdays and Holidays ) most of them here have liquor licenses that restrict legal carry. Then I worry about both our car being broken into (and my gun being stolen) AND a Killeen, TX type scenario.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Array ssssthesnake's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
    crowds a a big no no for me also if i go out its to enjoy my self just cant do that with all the crowds another place that i find hard to carry would be a theater since the seeting is so close to your body at least the one we have is with arm rests on both sides of you ect

  12. #27
    Member Array Trade_Sniper's Avatar
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    Dec 2005
    I just got my CCL, after 3 months of waiting, seemed like 3 years.

    Couple of recent items. Night before last, my son wanted to eat at Carls Jr (burger place). We were 60 miles from home, so we went in to eat. They didn't have booths, only swivel chairs permanently attached to the floor by a single steel post, like some McD's, with vertical bars going up the backrest. Plus the seat backs are very short. I couldn't get any wall seats. I was uncomfortable the whole meal worrying about if someone could see me printing through the back of my jail-bar seat back and trying to keep an eye on everyone to make sure no one came up behind me. I ate quickly and was glad to leave.

    Later that same evening I had to run to the grocery store before we went home. I went in, grabbed the item I needed and headed for the check-out. All the lines were full. I picked one and got in line. No one else got behind me for a while, then this man and woman pulled up behind me. They stayed to the rear of their cart, so didn't invade my space too much, but the man just looked like a dirtbag predator, real shifty. He kept eyeballing me, and I was watching him. I don't think he saw me printing, and I wanted to make sure he woudn't if he hadn't already, but he kept moving around. I turned sideways with my gun side away from him. When he would move, I moved or changed my angle to him, to constantly maintain this sideways stance with my gun the furthest distance I could keep it from him.

    Ate out tonight, small BBQ joint, first time there, I got a booth, gun-side-in, that put my back against a wall, my gun facing side against another wall, it was in the corner where I could see not only the door, but the entire place. It was the best observation seat in the place.

    I too hate crowds and avoid them whenever possible. Sometimes I think I'd rather have a root canal than go to the mall.

    [/rant on]
    A town I used to live in, before I got my CCL, had a no-guns Wal-Mart, or at least thats what I was told by some of my friends. I haven't been back there to confirm it yet. Anyway, I assumed that all Wal-Marts might be this way and hated that, because thats one of the few stores I do have to go into occasionally. There is one nearby in the new town I live in. Tonight I was running some errands, happened to drive by it and decided to cruise by the front doors very close and slow to see if I could see any no-guns signs on the doors. I didn't see any, but there were some small signs I couldn't make out clearly, so I parked and walked up to the doors, examined them all closely, also noticing a city cop just inside the doors talking to an employee. There weren't any no-gun signs, at least at this Wal-Mart, at this entrance. I decided there were a couple of things I needed, since I was already at the door, so I went in. I could of had the gun in my hand and the LEO would have never known. He never took his focus off the wally-world employee he was talking to or his 400# butt off the bar stool he was perched on, up against a wall just inside of the second row of entrance doors. I got the items I needed, checked out, and when I left, 30 minutes later, he was still sitting there, still talking, never even glancing at passers by. My tax dollars hard at work... I don't know why, but that irked me. He's in uniform, on duty, he should be paying attention. Hell, before I walked in, I was hesitant because I was afraid he'd 'make' me and I'd get hassled. I figure that LEOs should be one of the best at spotting someone who is carrying, so its always a great test of your concealment if they don't notice. I thought, I'm going to be carrying for a long time, and encounter many LEOs while doing it, I might as well get used to it now and get it over with, but then when he didn't even look at me or the group of less-than-model citizens that walked in in front of me, it kind of irritated me. A quick chat with a store employee is one thing, but to see him not even have changed cheeks when I walked back out a half hour later really made me proud to pay taxes. >:(

    I have the utmost respect for LEOs, but I feel that the handful of guys like him tarnish the image of the rest. For one thing, he should have been in better shape. I don't think he could have sprinted 20 yards unless it was for a bratwurst with a side of Krispy Kremes. The military has a 'fat-boy' program and I thought most local PDs did too, but this guy really made me doubt it, and this is a pretty good sized city (750k pop.?). I know the highway patrol does. Maybe I'm just over-sensitive, but I think that LE is one profession that should require above average physical shape, or AT LEAST average.
    [/rant off]

    Sorry if I swerved off topic here at the end, I was just trying to share my carrying experience, some of the things I think about and consider as a new CCL holder, and that was part of it unfortunately.
    *** IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, DIAL - 1911 ***

    Dan Wesson / CZ: Pointman 7, Stainless .45 ACP
    LaserMax, Carbon Fiber Ultra-thin Grips, Milt Sparks VM2, Milt Sparks 1.5" Tapered Gun Belt, Nickel Buckle, Galco Dual Magazine Carrier

    Charles Daly: Field Hunter VR-MC, Semi-Auto 12g

  13. #28
    New Member Array arizony's Avatar
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    Apr 2006
    Trinidad, CO
    Hi, all,
    I'm new here, but feel right at home. I, too, gravitate to the "corner" chair/seat facing the door. Lots of ground covered gives us a different perspective on those who believe that all other humanity are their lawful prey (ie-scum).

  14. #29
    Array Rock and Glock's Avatar
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    Nov 2005
    Colorado at 14,650'
    Welcome, arizony, from North Texas.

  15. #30
    Member Array MechE's Avatar
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    Jan 2005
    Northern VA
    I hate crowds also but it has little to do with the fact that I carry. I think I’ve become used to people being in close proximity to me while I’m carrying concealed. Part of the reason I carry IWB is so I don’t become to comfortable carrying and forget I have my pistol on me. I’m always reminded of the fact that I’m carrying because I have this chunk of metal in my waistband…and I’ll stay conscience of things like people bumping you, chair arms and hugs. All of my gal-pal friends hug every time we meet. I just go low with my hug forcing them to hug high so they won’t notice the chunk of metal at my waist.

    I live in northern VA and work for the government so there are many places I can not carry. The thing that bugs me the most is having to disarm and rearm all the time. I can’t carry to, from or at work so I have to go unarmed for most of the day. I have a large group of social friends and I cherish their friendship a lot. We do a lot of happy hour type get togethers most of which are impromptu. In VA we can’t carry in places that serve alcohol so I find myself locking my pistol in the truck a lot…and not drinking. Several of my friends are LEOs and pack every ware off duty so my security, when with them, is not usually an issue. I’ve become very tactful about how I disarm and rearm, in a parking lot, with out being “made”. When I go visit my home town in PA I don’t have these issues. For the most part I carry all the time and every ware up there.

    I guess it’s all about how much risk you are wiling to accept so you can live the life style you want to have.
    "EVERYONE is operating with only partial information" :hand27:
    Some Wise Guy, USA 2001

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