The Devil is in the DETAILS...

This is a discussion on The Devil is in the DETAILS... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Sometimes, when I'm out with the wife we might go to a restaurant and have a seat. I'll know instantly when i sit if I'm ...

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Thread: The Devil is in the DETAILS...

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation The Devil is in the DETAILS...

    Sometimes, when I'm out with the wife we might go to a restaurant and have a seat. I'll know instantly when i sit if I'm going to enjoy a worry free meal. If the SEAT has vertical slats placed in such a way so as to allow my gun to PRINT or shift...it's not going to allow me to relax. Or if there is an arm on the chair that might hang up my cover garment accidentally exposing the gun (very embarrassing -- like having the old zipper down, but worse ) or it hits the arm with a loud CLUNK. I usually specifythat we have a booth for this reason and it gives my back more support. It's small stuff here, but important.

    I was sitting on a bench seat on the end in a great BBQ place last year. A bunch of little kids are running all over the joint, screaming and playing....hey kids are kids. One little tyke takes the corner waaaay too tight and he starts to lose traction. His arms whips out instintively to catch himself and lands, right on the butt of my USP! HOLY MOLY! Kid's too young to know right? He just rights himself, yells Sorry Mister! and speeds away. Me? I'm sweating in the cold room. I don't sit on the end of a bench anymore.

    It's the little things in life that make the big things seem unimportant sometimes. Sometimes the bigger decision is what gun, what holster, spare mag on the belt on in a pocket...etc.

    This also is not a question of TACTICS or of confronting any sort of threat. But, s'pose I'd HAD to suddenly draw while seated and my gun got hung up on the seat itself?

    I had this thought (leading to this thread) when I read the story on another thread of the newbie to the forum who'd seen a bicyclist wearing a full helmet and sunglasses come into the restaurant where he was seated, still wearing the concealing headgear. He carefully watched the guys hands all the while ensuring his draw with a Beretta M92 was going to be clear if needed. It was okay (thank goodness) and it displayed good tactical foresight and a superb example of condition yellow mindset. But it got me to thinking.

    So what sorts of the details of carrying a gun in public (concealed) irritate y'all? I'm speaking here of things passive or in the background. Part of the landscape, that make you nervous or won't allow you to fully relax in their presence. OR maybe I'm just being neurotic.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    VIP Member Array KenpoTex's Avatar
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    I think I'm pretty much the same. I prefer booths over tables just because they give you a little more concealment. I prefer, if possible, to sit with my "gun side" on the inside (not facing the aisle or whatever) just so I could be a little more covert if I was drawing in anticipation of a "situation."

    I've also gotten to the point where I'll go to a different restaurant if I can't find a seat that either puts my back to a wall or allows me to see the door (or both). I absolutely refuse to sit at "lunch counters" where people can walk up behind me.

    Another thing that bugs me is standing in line at the grocery store or wherever. Most people in general wouldn't get that close to someone they didn't know, but in the checkout lines they'll breathe right down your friggin neck. I usually end up standing so that I face sideways so I can at least see the people behind me and keep them from being too close to my gun side.
    "Being a predator isn't always comfortable but the only other option is to be prey. That is not an acceptable option." ~Phil Messina

    If you carry in Condition 3, you have two empty chambers. One in the weapon...the other between your ears.

    Matt K.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenpotex
    in the checkout lines they'll breathe right down your friggin neck. I usually end up standing so that I face sideways so I can at least see the people behind me and keep them from being too close to my gun side.
    Here is what I do. I get in the checkout line ahead of my cart, that lets me control the space between me and the person ahead of me. And the cart keeps the people behind me from "breathing down my neck". It's not much, but it does provide a little buffer.
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Another reason I hate large CROWDS, anywhere. Could be at an outlet store like SAM'S CLUB or the mall the day after Thanksgiving. Crowds display classic sheep mentality. Nobody knows anybody but because they're all packed in together, they feel safer. But when the space is so close that elbows rub constantly and aI have to bull a breathing space for my wife, I get skittish. Mostly because 1 out of say 7 folks will bump up against my holstered and concealed 45. If they do it sharply enough, it causes them some pain. They yelp OUCH!, apologize and then give me a loooong sideways look. Sometimes you're oozing along in a line to get to the main entrance of a store and you'll pass eyeball to eyeball range to a serious predator who himself may be "hunting" but finds that difficult inside the mob. Sometimes the wolf and the sheepdog get just THAT close to each other and for an instant the growls rise and then the contact is broken, without bloodshed. Still when it happens it makes me hyper-aware. I'm always afraid one will "make" me before I detect him and try a gun grab. OTOH, not too many of them are quite that stupid....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Situation awarenes counts for a lot.
    quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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    Restaurants - back to wall, gunside to inside of booth.

    Driving - Agh! Cross carry G17 with a Huntington Wedge made by Jerry Evans, or in the center console covered by a small towel.

    Gym - AAAAggghhhhh! :sterk: I have a gym bag with a zippered flap on the end with a pocket perfect for my Skyy in a pocket holster, my wallet and cell phone. I hate it "off" body, but, it's a small gym, and I place the bag by the end of the treadmills my wife and I are on. I can watch the bag very closely. It positioned at the base of a stairmaster, one of the heinous contraptions invented by the spawn of satan that no one uses. I'm OK with that unless a lot of kids are at the gym (e.g. spring break) and then I just go Con Orange all the time. They play on the stairmaster. No fun. Generally, with only a few regulars there with my wife and I it's pretty relaxing nonetheless, if relaxing is the proper word for 4 miles on a treadmill in an hour at a 10% incline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Another reason I hate large CROWDS, anywhere.

    YES!
    I refuse to go. So does my wife, though, so it's OK on the marriage.

    I'm just feel lucky!

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    JT
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    Booths are definitely preferable in restaurants. My wife also lets me have “the gunfighter’s seat” (back to the wall, able to survey the premises). What's funny is when we go out to eat with my parents...seeing my dad and me fight over the seat.
    Blessed be the Lord my rock who trains my hands for war and my fingers for battle. Psalm 144:1

    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Wink Body By BOWFLEX

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock[B
    Gym[/B] - AAAAggghhhhh! :sterk: I have a gym bag with a zippered flap on the end with a pocket perfect for my Skyy in a pocket holster, my wallet and cell phone. I hate it "off" body, but, it's a small gym, and I place the bag by the end of the treadmills my wife and I are on. I can watch the bag very closely.
    Our former Chief of Police went to a gym and left his Glock M23 in a locker. While getting dressed after the workout, he went to holster the Glock and capped off TWO rounds right into the locker. The locker died instantly. The chief resigned in a few months on a vote of no-confidence. Thankfully in MY case it's BODY BY BOWFLEX (or trying to ) or maybe this device: http://www.powerplateusa.com THIS little gizmo has the potential to take the GRUNT out of workout! I don't GO to gyms in this area, period.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Member Array Shekkian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock
    Gym - AAAAggghhhhh! :sterk:
    I prefer to do my workouts at home. A few situps and pushups and I'm fine.

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    Back to the wall, in a booth preferably. I scan the crowd usually without thinking of it. Alot of the time up here it is cold, so I can remove my coat a let it bunch up against the holster in a booth. as long as I don't get the buffet(don't like to eat all that much anyway) I am good.
    Also work out at home w/ free weights and a bike, so no gym for me either.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

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    Exclamation I'm SO misunderstood!

    Quote Originally Posted by rocky
    I scan the crowd usually without thinking of it.
    I do the same thing! Why oh WHY am I accused of being a blatant girl watcher by my daughter when she's home on a vacation and has lunch with us..sometimes even my wife digs a subtle elbow into my ribs. I'm INNOCENT! I'm scanning the crowds for potential BG's! I can't help it if summertime in Miami FL makes women shed their clothes! And I'm not looking at THEM anyway! I'm so misunderstood!
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Another reason I hate large CROWDS, anywhere. <SNIP> or the mall the day after Thanksgiving.
    I don't go near a mall between the week before Thanksgiving and the week after New Years. During that period if I can't get it off the internet...... it doesn't get got!!
    Rick

    EOD - Initial success or total failure

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    Another crowd hater here!! I hate having my safe zone squeezed in to near nothing!

    Restaurant - I seem to be in good company (predictably) - booth from choice, gun side inside and not hampered by any obstruction. Wife pretty much knows I will choose our place and she will sit opposite usually - with me facing the main area. Still wish she would carry all time - working on it!

    Best of all perhaps is when eating out with a buddy who also carries, my son for instance. Then even a more central table is fine because we each have 180&#186; equally

    One slight downside to a booth is if the seat back is heavily padded and high - it makes for somewhat of an elbow obstruction should a draw be needed. I think best I have found could be what we have in a local KFC - high table, high chair with low back - and my ''usual'' one is by a window and close to a corner - gives full view of probably 95% and more of all going on.
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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    VIP Member Array SammyIamToday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExSoldier762
    Another reason I hate large CROWDS, anywhere.

    +15 to this. I hate crowds. Even at my best friend's wedding (large Irish Catholic Family) I had to leave the reception because there were just too many people around for me to properly keep tabs on them (feel comfortable). I can't handle it at all. If there's a large group of people, it's a safe bet to say I'm not in that crowd.

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