Out of respect?

This is a discussion on Out of respect? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; To tell you the truth, I am a little nervous. I hear you George!!! Only just went thru that when doing the Tulsa trip. As ...

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Thread: Out of respect?

  1. #16
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    To tell you the truth, I am a little nervous.
    I hear you George!!! Only just went thru that when doing the Tulsa trip. As soon as I crossed state line into MD en route to DC - disarm!!!

    Airport, plane - unarmed. Stop over with friends in Denver - didn't pack but could have - but little point actually. Then next day to Tulsa unarmed again. Only when at hotel could I break out the piece and strap on. Then of course at the show - again disarm!

    Finally when leaving once more, disarm and pack gun in baggage - so disarmed from them until back into PA. Stopped immediately over state line to ''re-equip''

    Best tho is - crank up the alert mechanism - and if possible at least have a small folder which I think will be ok except on the plane.

    When you carry every waking hour it is far from pleasant being unarmed but no choice in these situations. I expect tho the trip will still be a great success - just dream of that return day when you get the piece back on - ahhh, the relish!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by P95Carry
    Best tho is - crank up the alert mechanism - and if possible at least have a small folder which I think will be ok except on the plane.
    I will have my Beretta Large Airlight Skeleton folder in the checked baggage and as soon as I pick up the rental car I will get it out. For the past 12 years or so I have never been without a large folder with pocket clip on my body. Ofter one large and one medium. About 6 or 7 months ago I really started to realize that although they were defensive weapons they did not have much reach. That's when I noticed the USCCA and CCM ads in my NRA mag and started looking into concealed carry. And now I only carry one knife and usually 2 pistols. I feel a lot safer. Part of that is just awareness, but part is having the right tool for the job.
    George

    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. Albert Einstein

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzmtg
    I've seen several posts on several boards from people who don't carry in certain places "out of respect." Out of respect for what? How are you showing someone (or someplace?) any kind of respect by voluntarily disarming?...
    And yet, how are you showing your host respect by dismissing or ignoring your host's concerns when you know they exist? It is considered common courtesy in some armed societies to disarm, as a sign of trust and respect, when one is the guest. In those cases, it is also understood that, as a guest, one is under the protection of one's host. I think this is part of the problem, in this country - people want you to disarm, but they aren't prepared to take responsibility for your protection if you do.

    Perhaps it is true that, if someone asks you to disarm in their place, they don't respect your decision to carry as much as they fear guns. But if you carry in their place in defiance of their known wishes, don't kid yourself into thinking you are carrying out of respect for them. If you carry where the law says guns are prohibited, don't kid yourself into thinking you are carrying out of respect for the law. Survival is selfish; and, the decision to carry is, ultimately, a selfish one.

    The decision to disarm in the presence of a respected host, and the decision to disarm in places where the law prohibits carry, are not, in my opinion, the same flawed reasoning as someone who only carries when they anticipate they will need a gun. At some point, it becomes a point of honor, and a personal decision, like deciding whether or not to honor an employer's carry policies on their property. Who are we to judge?
    - Tom
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  5. #19
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    And yet, how are you showing your host respect by dismissing or ignoring your host's concerns when you know they exist? It is considered common courtesy in some armed societies to disarm, as a sign of trust and respect, when one is the guest. In those cases, it is also understood that, as a guest, one is under the protection of one's host. I think this is part of the problem, in this country - people want you to disarm, but they aren't prepared to take responsibility for your protection if you do.

    Perhaps it is true that, if someone asks you to disarm in their place, they don't respect your decision to carry as much as they fear guns. But if you carry in their place in defiance of their known wishes, don't kid yourself into thinking you are carrying out of respect for them. If you carry where the law says guns are prohibited, don't kid yourself into thinking you are carrying out of respect for the law. Survival is selfish; and, the decision to carry is, ultimately, a selfish one.

    The decision to disarm in the presence of a respected host, and the decision to disarm in places where the law prohibits carry, are not, in my opinion, the same flawed reasoning as someone who only carries when they anticipate they will need a gun. At some point, it becomes a point of honor, and a personal decision, like deciding whether or not to honor an employer's carry policies on their property. Who are we to judge?

    A private property owner asking you to disarm and disarming when directed by law is not "voluntary."

    I'm talking about people who don't carry in church or private property (etc...) when it's legal to do so and they haven't been asked not to.

    I'm just saying that I don't see why some places are inherently "inappropriate" for being armed.

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzmtg
    A private property owner asking you to disarm and disarming when directed by law is not "voluntary."...
    Thank you for the clarification. I was thinking of voluntary in different terms than you. I take your meaning. Interesting question. I'm not sure my reply would be any different, though. Would you carry in a place you know weapons aren't welcome, if it is legal and no one has specifically asked you to disarm? For example, you have a friend who you know, from past conversations, absolutely doesn't want guns in her house. Would you carry there even if she doesn't explicitly ask you to disarm? Or, a community meeting is being held at the Friends' Meeting Hall. No one thinks to ask you to disarm. Would you carry there?
    - Tom
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom357
    Thank you for the clarification. I was thinking of voluntary in different terms than you. I take your meaning. Interesting question. I'm not sure my reply would be any different, though. Would you carry in a place you know weapons aren't welcome, if it is legal and no one has specifically asked you to disarm? For example, you have a friend who you know, from past conversations, absolutely doesn't want guns in her house. Would you carry there even if she doesn't explicitly ask you to disarm? Or, a community meeting is being held at the Friends' Meeting Hall. No one thinks to ask you to disarm. Would you carry there?
    Since you asked, I'll say it again, although I thought it was obvious by now:

    If you know the wishes of the private property owner, then disarming isn't voluntary.

    Did I seem like I was splitting the hair of being asked to disarm and being told weapons aren't welcome?

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Survival is selfish; and, the decision to carry is, ultimately, a selfish one.
    I can see your point, but I disagree.

    When I first considered getting my permit, this may have been true; however, that quickly evolved into my current attitude. I carry now more for the protection of my family, and so that I will continue to be around to provide for them, than I do for my own selfish reasons.

    It is the same reason I have put together a shelter in place type kit for us. At the moment we are good for a couple of weeks, rather comfortably, I am working it up to a month as we speak. Eventually I would like to be able to go off grid for months at a time. Why? because of my family. I know I could most likely survive much easier and cheaply on my own, but I would rather die providing and protecting for them than to survive and lose even one of them.


    If caring about my family and providing for their well Survival is selfish; and, the decision to carry is, ultimately, a selfish one.
    (at noone's expense but mine and those who may attempt to harm them) , is selfish, then I am proud to be called such.

    Bryan

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    As for the original post, I used to avoid carrying at church out of respect. I did it for the same reason that I don't wear my work clothes to church on Sunday. After some further study of the bible rather than the traditions of men, I saw the error of my ways. Now I carry there almost without exception.Even then, it is secured in my vehicle.

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array mzmtg's Avatar
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    If you want to be a heartless reductionist (or objectivist) every act is ultimately selfish.

    ...not that there's anything wrong with that...

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array Zundfolge's Avatar
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    Respect?

    If a business doesn't respect me enough to allow me to carry I'm not going there (or I will go there and still carry...screw their stupid policy which holds no legal weight her in CO).

    If I choose to follow someones policy and not carry, I do so not "out of respect" but "grudgingly and bitching & moaning the whole time".

    Of course I don't carry where the law says its a no-no, and I don't carry there "out of respect", I just don't carry "out of fear of the law".

    Big difference.


    Of course I've never been in any government building where I actually respected the people in charge or those I was about to meet with (with the possible exception of the County Sheriff's office ... he's a good guy).

  12. #26
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    I suggest you respect others more when you can offer them the protection of your presence, preparedness, and proper tools.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  13. #27
    Senior Member Array BlueLion's Avatar
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    My Pops is the same way and one night when I rode with him to pick up an order from a large sea food restaurant and I asked if they served alcohol he asked why (he knows I don't) I said because I need to leave my pistol in the car if they do.

    Now, he got me to carrying and was very sincere about being that he is a Vietnam Vet and carries a CCW Permit. He was amazed when I told him that I carry every where that is legal. His reply was I dont take it into businesses. Man,,if you can carry do it. If you can't carry in then avoid and don't go to them places. Like when I go to the post office I have started buying stamps and paying what I can online. There is even a nice walking park in my area that says no pistols. I don't use it.

    This world is too crazy to go naked...
    Listen, Think and React.....Nuff Said.....

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Nick's Avatar
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    For me it is a rare case to not have my gun on me. I can't say I've 'never' been without it, however if that had to happen, then I've made sure its close by.

    In my view, there should not be any "gun laws". Thats right, I believe we have an inherent right to keep and bear arms. Unfortunately, the gun grabbers have sliced and diced this 'natural' and constitutional right to the sad state it is today.
    "To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them."
    George Mason


    "Gun control is a job-safety program for criminals."
    John R. Lott

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