What about a National CCW option? - Page 3

What about a National CCW option?

This is a discussion on What about a National CCW option? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Nope. I am absolutely, 100%, COMPLETELY against the Feds getting involved in carry in any way shape or form. Not even limited. Not optional. Not ...

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Thread: What about a National CCW option?

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    Nope. I am absolutely, 100%, COMPLETELY against the Feds getting involved in carry in any way shape or form. Not even limited. Not optional. Not nothing!

    Read my signature line and you will plainly see my feelings.
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  2. #32
    Member Array sixsccw's Avatar
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    That'll teach me to spew all over my keyboard and submit something without proof-reading it. I guess I can see where I may have misrepresented myself -

    Rather than address everyone individually, I'll just go for a general clarification. If I didn't care dearly about this issue, I wouldn't bother.

    - I picked the $500 as an arbitrary figure to emphasize the widespread enthusiasm I believe people would show if those who live in "may issue" states were offered more of a chance at CCW. That figure is obviously too high.
    - None of the amendments, just as none of the Commandments, were ever intended to be implemented and mindlessly abided by at face value. The intent of the Founders has to be understood, and it seems our modern society has spawned a lot of issues the Fathers wouldn't have dreamed of. In a country where it seems everyone either IS a therapist or is SEEING one, some stricter regulation of CCWs may be in order.
    And that's the point - right now, an awful lot of the "shall issue" states are handing out CCWs with such ease, that a document that carries grave responsibilities sometimes resembles a fishing license. I’d like to see the CCW represent more.
    While I was waiting for my CCW, I thoroughly researched NY's Article 35 of the penal code so that I would understand the use of deadly force. I also took a 10-hour live-fire training course on CCW, night shooting and tactical handgun. And I will continue this training.
    But it should be mandatory.

    One of your responses does require a direct rebuttal - Majorlk, who said "You'd make a great spokesman for the anti movement." For your sake, and to anyone else who doubts my rabid dedication to our 2nd Amendment rights, I offer the next post which are excerpts from my letter to the judge who issued my CCW. My support of our gun rights is beyond question, and I’m sure I am in good company judging from what I’ve seen and learned on this fine site.

    Thanks
    Six
    "I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you ---- with me, I'll kill you all."

    Marine Corps General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

  3. #33
    Member Array aikidoka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnKelly View Post
    Why couldn't it work like a driver's license? Not federally issued, but any state will honor any other state DL. So the federal government could pass a law - not one that allowes federal permits to be issued but instead requires all states to recognize reciprocity of CCW's. So Illinois would by law *have* to honor a Kentucky CCDW permit, heh.
    And Indiana's which doesn't define how one has to carry. OC baby! haha

  4. #34
    Member Array sixsccw's Avatar
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    And here it is – I’m sure everyone here feels as I do about our God-given rights:

    “Dear Judge (Deleted);

    “As a responsible and law-abiding citizen who hopes to soon be a permit holder and pistol owner, I consider the issuance of an unrestricted concealed carry permit by the State of New York to be the highest honor and privilege that can be entrusted to such an individual. It is therefore appropriate and correct that I endeavor to rise to that honor; my entry into handgun ownership would be half-hearted if I did not. I am keenly aware that this type of privilege carries substantial weight, substance and duty.”

    “I have heard “self defense” used as justification for concealed carry, but I am not entirely at ease with that characterization. I believe you and I, as men, are not programmed to defend only ourselves – our most noble instinctual trait is that we are programmed to defend others, to protect, and to serve the greater good first and our own safety second. As such, it is only natural and proper for us, and in fact required of us, to seek the tools that enhance our ability to uphold this innate duty. Indeed, as George F. Will wrote after the 9-11 attacks, “Public safety is the public’s business. Public authorities take the lead, and some work at it full-time. However, at all times, and especially times like these, it is every citizen’s business.”

    “When I ponder all this, I am reminded of two notable incidents from our country’s past. Everyone remembers the horrible events in 1999 in Littleton, Colorado. Two murderous shooters marched unchallenged through a school, the principal being helpless, while the SWAT team sadly arrived too late. But very few recall when, two years earlier in Pearl, Mississippi, a high school vice principal heard gunshots in the hallway of the school (this time from a lone shooter), and dashed to his car and retrieved his licensed pistol. He then bravely and selflessly ran back to stop the shooter and hold him for the police.”

    “Similar stories of citizens using personal firearms in the purpose of defense are quite numerous. Still, I hasten to add that I am aware an armed citizen’s rights to act in defense of oneself or of another are heavily and rightly restricted. I only use the above example to say that as men, it’s only right for us to pray that if we are ever faced with such an emergency, that each of us would have the chance and fortitude to aspire to be the vice principal from Pearl rather than the unfortunate helpless souls in Littleton.”
    "I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you ---- with me, I'll kill you all."

    Marine Corps General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

  5. #35
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    And that's the point - right now, an awful lot of the "shall issue" states are handing out CCWs with such ease, that a document that carries grave responsibilities sometimes resembles a fishing license. I’d like to see the CCW represent more.
    I couldn't agree more!!! In some states, it's far, far too easy to obtain a permit, and a few states don't require one at all. Although I'm NOT an advocate of gun control, I'd like to see some standards enacted for people who want to carry (and possible use) deadly force. As a basis, I'd like to see a handgun handling/safety course. A half day should be enough to teach anyone how to safely carry, store, and clean handgun. I'd also like to see a course like is in place here in SC. It's an all day, 8 hour treatment of SC handgun laws, including where you can carry and when you can shoot. There's also a 50 round proficiency segment at ranges from 15 yards down to 5. There's a 60% (?) requirement there (I think it should be more like 90%).

    It's not about control, it's about safety.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    Gay Marriage may be great in weirdo states but we do not want it recognized in Ohio.
    Bashing is not welcome.

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  7. #37
    Member Array Louis's Avatar
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    I respect your opinions on gun safety, but the Second Amendment was not written so that those people determined to be safe by the government could keep and bear arms. It is a basic right that predates the Constitution. I believe John Lott's first book concluded that training was not correlated with accidents. The ADs for which I have personal knowledge were by very well trained people. If we fall into the training trap we allow the government camel to get its nose under the tent.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    What about a National CCW option?
    No thanks. When the federal government gets involved in the regulation of anything, over time the laws tend to become MORE restrictive, not less.

    Quote Originally Posted by tns0038 View Post
    It would mean that all states could stop issuing nonresident CCL. There would be no point since the state your traveling too, would be required to accept the one you have from your own state.
    Not so fast... non-resident permits would still be very necessary. If national reciprocity came about, there's no guarantee that states that currently do not issue permits would have to start issuing. For example, what about residents of Illinois or Wisconsin, where CCW permits do not exist? Or states like California, New York, Maryland, etc where permits are very difficult (if not practically impossible) to receive?

    Without non-resident permits, out-of-staters could carry anywhere, but residents of certain states would still be unable to do so.

  9. #39
    Member Array sixsccw's Avatar
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    From Keltyke – “I'd also like to see a course like is in place here in SC. It's an all day, 8 hour treatment of SC handgun laws, including where you can carry and when you can shoot. There's also a 50 round proficiency segment at ranges from 15 yards down to 5. There's a 60% (?) requirement there (I think it should be more like 90%).”

    Thanks for the input, sir - How ironic is it that NY is so notoriously tough on gun owners, yet SC runs things like they ought to be? It's exactly what I'm talking about.

    From Grant48 – “Without non-resident permits, out-of-staters could carry anywhere, but residents of certain states would still be unable to do so.”

    Yep.

    Six
    "I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you ---- with me, I'll kill you all."

    Marine Corps General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders

  10. #40
    Member Array CommonMan101's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    We already have a National Permit.

    All these regs and such need to go away. To save myself the headache of trying to put it into words that everyone can understand I'll let Ted speak for me:

    Ted Nugent: “I believe that a person's moral compass can be determined by how he references free men the right to defend themselves. The second amendment is so obvious to me, its insane that there is an argument. Let’s pretend there is no document. Let’s pretend brave families didn’t leave the tyrants and slave drivers of Europe, so that they could practice the religion of their choice, they could speak out without being murdered, that they could produce wool without the King’s men coming and taking it from them every season of harvest. Lets pretend none of this happened. Lets just pretend that this guy named Ted Nugent, parachuted down to earth and woke up one morning and saw all of these wonderful resources and had dreams of excellence and being the best that I could be. I don’t need a document and I don’t need another man to explain to me that I have the right to defend my gift of life. And that there is an argument in America from Hilary Clinton, from Barbara Boxer, Diane Feinstein, from a whole gaggle of numbnuts, who would try to tell me they will dictate where how and if, I can defend myself. I find that preposterous, I find that unacceptable and I will not accept it. I am a free man, DON’T Tread on Me, a good law abiding citizen, not convicted of a felony. The 2nd amendment of our bill of rights is my concealed weapons permit. PERIOD. That’s it.

    -------------
    Stop the insanity! You're giving the grabbers what they want by playing on their field of "control" with this permit stuff! You've already given in to the idea of gun control now it's just a matter of how much and how far until it's all gone.

    Keep
    It
    Simple
    Sweetie!

  11. #41
    Member Array ibesarcasm's Avatar
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    My buck fifty worth is.........

    If you don't like how your current state treats your 2nd amendment rights........move! Plenty of other states will support your right to bear arms....
    The notion that we would even half-heartedly support the Feds ability to dictate how the states perforn their business......is well.......unthinkable..........
    Sarcasm - Just one of the many services I provide!
    Ever wonder why massacres never happen at a gun range??
    You might find me dead in a ditch one day, but I'll be in a pile of brass. - Stolen from Zebra64

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array cwblanco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    What if there was a National CCW option that was only issued by a federal agency, was a completely different process, and had zero impact on individual State CCW, other than they would be required to honor the National permit?

    In other words, you have each state still issuing their own permits, and maintaining their own reciprocity agreements, just there is an option to apply for a National CCW permit through, well say for the sake of the discussion, the US Marshals.
    I think that it is a good concept. Because the CCW standards for some states are almost non-existant while others are quite rigid, a separate permit issued by the feds would help to bring uniformity to the system.

    That being said, I would absolutely oppose the feds pre-empting the state CCW laws, or barring reciprocity laws adopted by the various states, with the lone exception to the extent that reciprocity would be allowed in all cases where federal CCW permit is issued.

    Actually, I think you will see ice in hell before a federal CCW permat law is enacted.
    Live every day so that you can, with a clear conscience, look all men in their eyes and tell them to go to hell.

  13. #43
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    New York can take their gold standard and pound sand!

    The gold standard of NY, you are suggesting is a way to limit those who get a ccw to the privileged few and those connected with the Govt.

    Does that also include that if your ccw is suspended they take your guns too? Like in NY! Just go ahead and take peoples personal property away without due process?
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    It is a basic right that predates the Constitution.
    I also have a basic right to not be accidentally shot by someone's stupid mishandling or careless shooting. As my Daddy used to say, "My right to throw a punch ends where your nose begins." ADs can happen to anyone - but does a little extra training and instruction hurt? Frankly, I'm proud of my handgun handling knowledge and my scores on the written and practical part of the SC CWP course. It proves I know what I'm doing.

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    If you don't like how your current state treats your 2nd amendment rights........move!
    WRONG! Stay where you are and lobby your state's government to get the laws changed. Nominate and vote for 2A friendly people.

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