stopped by Texas State Trooper (good)

This is a discussion on stopped by Texas State Trooper (good) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; And no, 5 over is not worthy of being pulled over. That officer was fishing for something bigger. I have been pulled over for "I ...

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Thread: stopped by Texas State Trooper (good)

  1. #16
    Member Array CommonMan101's Avatar
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    And no, 5 over is not worthy of being pulled over. That officer was fishing for something bigger. I have been pulled over for "I stopped you because of where you came from". I was in my own neighborhood leaving my friend's house and going home 2 blocks away! He was sitting in an alleyway at the end of my friend's block when he saw me stop for the stop sign. He actually sniffed my truck to see if pot was in the air. I happened to be a white guy that still lives in a neighborhood that has turned, mainly, Hispanic. Can anyone say "Profiling"?

    He repeated his reason for stopping me at least 4 times during the whole thing and every time he had no answer to my questions of 'What does that mean? I just told you who's house I came from and you said you do not want to go back and confirm that is where I came from! I asked you if David is under some kind of police watch and that you could not have possibly seen me leave there from where you were sitting anyway!' SO , WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?? He had the most befuddled look I've ever seen on an officer that's stopped me. Because it's not right what he did and he couldn't answer the honest questions concerning his statement. He stopped me 10 houses from my own and then told me to get home. I said I would already be there and in bed if he hadn't wasted both of our time. He had nothing to say and we parted ways.

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  3. #17
    Member Array CommonMan101's Avatar
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    I believe HB 2730 came about because any officer of the law in Texas had the power to confiscate your license at his whim. It was way too much power and was getting abused.

  4. #18
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faif2d View Post
    He asked where it was and I replied in my front RH pocket.
    I said it is in my RH rear pocket (second not good thing damn!)
    This is why I have switched to a small money clip that holds a couple of credit cards and my DL and CPL. I carry it in my LEFT front pocket so I don't have to reach towards my right hip or pocket to get out my DL. I carry IWB at 5:00 or so or right front pocket carry. I wouldn't want to have to reach to my right rear pocket to get my DL since in Michigan we are required to inform an officer.

    I got the money clip/wallet at WalMart, I mean where else do you get anything these days. I joke with my wife that I am at Walmart on average 12 times a week. Sometimes it seems like it.

  5. #19
    Member Array TH48's Avatar
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    5 over is kinda stretching it a bit. There's a place in Louisiana that will write you up for 1 over which I think is bad business. If you travel the South stay away from Golden Meadow, LA. Personally I no longer travel there or provide them the benefit of my locally spent $$. Just a warning.. Good LEO encounter though.
    To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them. Richard Henry Lee 1788

  6. #20
    Member Array 3dfxMM's Avatar
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    I believe HB 2730 came about because any officer of the law in Texas had the power to confiscate your license at his whim. It was way too much power and was getting abused.
    I believe it had more to do with the fact that people who don't have a CHL are allowed to have a gun in the car and are not required to inform. As has been stated, CHL holders are still required to show their CHL if asked for ID while carrying. Also, keep in mind that this is not restricted to traffic stops. It is any time you are asked for ID while carrying.

  7. #21
    Member Array ASHTXSNIPER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ranburr View Post
    You are no longer required to tell an officer that you are a CHL or armed, unless he ask you.
    No that is wrong. You have to inform the officer. What changed is that if you don't inform the officer them he no longer can confiscate your CCL. When you go to court for your ticket the judge can cancel it at his discretion if you don't identify.
    Proud houlder of a Texas Open Carry License.

  8. #22
    Member Array CommonMan101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASHTXSNIPER View Post
    No that is wrong. You have to inform the officer. What changed is that if you don't inform the officer them he no longer can confiscate your CCL. When you go to court for your ticket the judge can cancel it at his discretion if you don't identify.
    Guess I need to talk to some lawyers again. My understanding was that, previously, you had to volunteer it whenever an officer asked you for ID - driving, walking, sitting, whatever - he didn't have to ask for it but you were required to notify him if he was asking for your ID. To me, if there is no penalty for not offering it then it is not against the law. Now I'm confused. If there is no penalty then how can a judge impose one?

    I saw the immediately enforced penalty at his whim being removed as a plus against this heinous abuse of power in the field. Many of us were wondering why we should go through the trouble of getting a CHL if we were safer from prosecution to not get the license at all - (only when driving).

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonMan101 View Post
    I believe HB 2730 came about because any officer of the law in Texas had the power to confiscate your license at his whim. It was way too much power and was getting abused.
    wrong....it was changed because there were a huge number of people getting caught in this situation and there was no logic in hammering CHL holders for this, over the past 2 years CHL holders have been making their voices heard in the legislature; also non-CHL holders don't have to inform and people pushed for this based on that
    also, there were people that were carrying handguns in their car without their CHL yet (legal, I know), the DPS has been so far behind that some people were getting approved in the system but hadn't received their plastic yet and got smacked for this provision
    thats all fixed now since September 1st there is no penalty for not displaying/telling, however its not a bad idea to do so


    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more
    Stopped for 5 over? Weak.
    a lot of drug dealers and other scum have been busted like this
    LEO/CHL
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonMan101 View Post
    Guess I need to talk to some lawyers again. My understanding was that, previously, you had to volunteer it whenever an officer asked you for ID - driving, walking, sitting, whatever - he didn't have to ask for it but you were required to notify him if he was asking for your ID. To me, if there is no penalty for not offering it then it is not against the law. Now I'm confused. If there is no penalty then how can a judge impose one?
    I saw the immediately enforced penalty at his whim being removed as a plus
    what you said above in bold is correct
    although the at his whim bit is a whole other topic since an officer must have reason to recommend suspension based on this law, not just at his whim, but I'll stop there

    This is one of the sections updated 9-1-09
    GC Sec. 411.205. DISPLAYING LICENSE; PENALTY. (a) If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

    it removed one of the penalty's for not displaying:
    (removed) A person who fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by this subsection is subject to suspension of the person's license as provided by Section 411.187.
    (b) A person commits an offense if the person fails or refuses to display the license and identification as required by Subsection (a) after previously having had the person's license suspended for a violation of that subsection. An offense under this subsection is a Class B misdemeanor.


    the "enforcement" section for the statute above:
    GC Sec. 411.187. SUSPENSION OF LICENSE. (a) A license may be suspended under this section if the license holder:
    (removed)
    (2) fails to display a license as required by Section 411.205;

    so Government Code Section 411.205 says the requirement to inform is still there, but there is no teeth to enforce it
    LEO/CHL
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    LEOs don't like surprises.
    That is not strange at all considering all idiots they have to deal with. If the CCW owner does not tell the LEO that he/she has CCW and a firearm, how in the earth will they know that the person they stopped is not a criminal waiting for a chance to shoot?
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  12. #26
    Member Array CommonMan101's Avatar
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    Thanks for your post, Zebra. These parts focus on that dynamic specifically (presentation to officer or not) but what I was talking about was that an officer can decide you are a threat by his own judgement of the situation and confiscate it - even if you offered it up as you should. I don't remember a bar of proof for any accusation by them that had to be met for them to do that - that's why the "whim" description. Even after a proper presentation you are still subject to the "judge" the officer has become in the field and up to you to go to court to reverse it. Is that still the way it is?

    Thanks again for sharing your knowledgeable experience.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommonMan101 View Post
    Thanks for your post, Zebra. These parts focus on that dynamic specifically (presentation to officer or not) but what I was talking about was that an officer can decide you are a threat by his own judgement of the situation and confiscate it - even if you offered it up as you should. I don't remember a bar of proof for any accusation by them that had to be met for them to do that - that's why the "whim" description. Even after a proper presentation you are still subject to the "judge" the officer has become in the field and up to you to go to court to reverse it. Is that still the way it is?

    Thanks again for sharing your knowledgeable experience.
    no problem bro
    as for the not showing/informing LEO, pre 9-1-09....its pretty black and white....if you didn't show it when asked for ID you broke the law and the LEO could take action on that if he wished or could chew you out, etc., and yeah you'd have to go to court on it just like anything else, this is where the at his whim or being the "judge" on the side of the road part doesn't jive with me, he'd only be doing his job

    me personally...I've made one traffic stop involving a CHL, this was before 9-1-09, he wasn't armed, didn't have his DL but had his CHL so he showed me that and I was able to confirm he had a DL, was clear of warrants, etc and he went on his merry way (no ticket)
    I'd be inclined to look differently upon a CHL that forgot to inform than some anti-CHL/gun LEOs but thats my discretion, but that doesn't mean an officer would have been in the wrong for taking action when not informed/shown CHL properly pre 9-1-09
    as for taking action, yes an officer can confiscate the CHL and fill out a formal request to be turned over to a judge to recommend suspension/revocation of license....but thats for an extreme cirumstance...such as the CHL holder I arrested for agg assault (can't go into details, lets just say his use of a shotgun at an apartment complex wasn't in self-defense), this guy definitely did not need to be a CHL with his attitude and blatant dangerous act and judgment
    a jury/judge will decide all that but this was an extreme circumstance, not a traffic stop for doing 10 over the speed limit

    I don't know any officer in our dept that has ever filled out that paperwork for anything less than my unique situation above
    LEO/CHL
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    "I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
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    Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
    If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?

  14. #28
    Member Array ranburr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ASHTXSNIPER View Post
    No that is wrong. You have to inform the officer. What changed is that if you don't inform the officer them he no longer can confiscate your CCL. When you go to court for your ticket the judge can cancel it at his discretion if you don't identify.
    I'm not wrong. I'm a TX CHL instructor and this is what DPS informed us at the latest instructor renewal. If he ask if you are carrying then yes, you tell him and show him your TDL and CHL. If he doesn't ask, you are not required to tell him or show your CHL.

  15. #29
    New Member Array sasparilla's Avatar
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    I don't carry in Texas, but If you carry out of Texas, remember, you are bound by the other state's laws. For example, in Michigan, if you are stopped in your car by police there, then you must hand the officer your permit and driver's license, and you must tell the officer that you have a sidearm.

  16. #30
    Member Array faif2d's Avatar
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    I made the decision shortly after I began carrying that I would always tell the LEO that asked for ID. I feel that it is just common courtesy, if I was a LEO I would want to know so there were not any surprises. I have read cases where this did not work out well for the carrier but will continue to declare. I just hope I can remember to say armed instead of gun next time.

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