Get this guys - Page 2

Get this guys

This is a discussion on Get this guys within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My instructor has had a similar thing happen to him - but in the state of his residence. He said it's pretty common for new ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array CRags99's Avatar
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    My instructor has had a similar thing happen to him - but in the state of his residence. He said it's pretty common for new officers to do that, but also to keep in mind that we have no idea what that officer has been through. He may have had a gun pulled on him the day before. I think that would make me a bit more nervous, you? They're allowed (in KY - at least as far as I know) to ask you to exit the vehicle, and to remove your weapon before continuing their traffic stop. I'm not excusing this particular LEOs actions, or his ignorance of reciprocity, just trying to see the other side.
    Glock 27

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  2. #17
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    VIP Member Array sgb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grifft View Post
    He then told me to put my hands on the hood while he removed my weapon still has not ask for my license. I was still Ok with it. Then he ask for my license both driving and CCW. He then said for his protection cuffed me and put me in his car.
    As a former LEO myself I've got to say that's a load of BS. No one should be cuffed and stuffed for legally carrying a firearm. Disarming you for following the law shows a lack of courtesy, the bad guys don't tell LEO that they're armed do they.
    "There is a secret pride in every human heart that revolts at tyranny. You may order and drive an individual, but you cannot make him respect you." William Hazlitt (1778 - 1830)

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  3. #18
    Member Array Coastie 585's Avatar
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    It is very simple, he detained the OP until he realized no crime had been committed. Once he realized no crime had been committed he released the OP and sent him on his merry way.

    This happens THOUSANDS of times a day in the US and the officer was well within his rights. Glad the OP understands. Being prior LEO probably helps out though.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    I consider myself a staunch supporter of LE, however, the situation as stated is not excusable with the handcuffs. With all the news regarding the carrying of weapons all LEOs should have such things as reciprocity with them. I realize they cannot know all of it, but they can have a list of reciprocal states along with the other laws in their cars.

    Just doing his job includes knowing, and having immediately available, the law.

    I agree that a letter to his chief is in order. If the OP had not had a copy of the law/reciprocity he would have had to endure an even more unpleasant experience.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array gdm320's Avatar
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    National Concealed Carry reform would completely resolve this issue. At least you had an LEO that was willing to admit he didn't know and accept your explanation.
    "Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death." -- General Omar Bradley

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CRags99 View Post
    He said it's pretty common for new officers to do that, but also to keep in mind that we have no idea what that officer has been through.
    And no interest either.

    I'm from Chicago and have seen plenty of bad cops. Does that justify my failure to cooperate with police lawfully performing their duties as I am specifically required to by the law, even if it happened yesterday? No.

    If your rights were violated by a cop five minutes ago, does that give you the right to disobey the lawful commands of a different cop (or even the SAME cop)? I didn't think so.

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    His ignorance of law is no excuse
    I agree. Would he let you go if you thought the speed limit was 70 but it was 55? No.

  8. #23
    Member Array grifft's Avatar
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    Thanks for your comments

    Everyone made a good point and I respect your opinion. I was not mad at the LEO because he did admit he was wrong and never treated me badly in any way. I guess being a former LEO I have a little more tolerance when it comes to the LEO. Once again thanks

  9. #24
    Member Array Chiller2's Avatar
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    I have had 2 stops recently one a NC state trooper for no seatbelt and one a SC city cop for speeding in both cases I had a gun in my center console in both cases I gave my permit with my license the Trooper didn't say anything about my weapon,City cop asked me if I had it on me told him it was in the console he said ok and that was it.Got a ticket in both cases but that was it no drama the way it should be.

  10. #25
    Member Array Precision's Avatar
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    The past experiences of the LEO, the way he is feeling, what he had for dinner, if his wife walked out on him...are not my problem. Just like my reason for speeding is not his problem. It is simply the law. Your broke it or you didn't. The jury process filters out the rest.

    I had a VERY poor interaction with an LEO. 1 or 4 interactions within the last 12 months. The other 3 were fine to great.

    In the poor one, the LEO demanded that I disarm on property that I OWN before he would perform his job. I had additional people there and secured my gun with them (while fuming). Short version. I cooled off for a week, then made and appointment to speak with his shift supervisor. The supervisor was visibly shocked and dismayed by the actions of the responding officer. The entire division has since been retrained on proper CCW procedures.

    A bad interaction turned into a good learning experience.

    Pursue / defend your rights or lose them

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    And this is why I have stuck with a non-resident permit (doesn't show up on my record if pulled over) and won't say anything to a cop unless told to get out of my car in a no-tell state.

  12. #27
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    And this is why I have stuck with a non-resident permit (doesn't show up on my record if pulled over) and won't say anything to a cop unless told to get out of my car in a no-tell state.
    Unfortunately, not an option in Ohio. You're required to notify "promptly". Recently a local man was tried for failing to "promptly" notify for ***51*** seconds, during which police with guns drawn were ORDERING him NOT to speak. He was acquitted. I expect there to be civil suits against the officers and the Beachwood PD.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divebum47 View Post
    While you make some fairly good points, look at it from the LEO's perspective.

    1) He has to know as many laws and about as much about the law as a lawyer. Problem is, he has to make split second decisions based upon that knowledge, and does not have the luxury of a law library and plenty of time.
    and a couple of paralegals to do the research. I can see where the officers are not going to memorize a list of states that share recipricity. Perhaps the department should publish a list to keep in the patrol cars.

    And as far as handcuffing after removing the gun, how is he supposed to know if you have a backup. I suppose he could ask you, or search you, but I am sure many here would feel this would be an unacceptable infringment. I do agree handcuffing may have been more than was neccesary, but I believe it is within the officers acceptable actions in this case.

    If this happend to me I would comply as directed, I might not be happy about it, but I would hope it would go smoothly and I could get on my way as soon as possible.

  14. #29
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBeau View Post
    If this happend to me I would comply as directed, I might not be happy about it, but I would hope it would go smoothly and I could get on my way as soon as possible.
    There's a vast difference between compliance, consent, and rolling over for improper behavior by police.

    You should never consent, always comply, always assert your rights and be prepared to pursue appropriate administrative and civil remedies.

  15. #30
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    The LEO's "perspective" is utterly irrelevant. The only thing that's relevant is the law.


    EVERYBODY has to know the law. If you violate it, not knowing it isn't an excuse.

    It's the LEO's JOB to know the law. The idea that he has LESS of a duty to know the law than any citizen is simply absurd.

    If there are "too many" laws for the cop to know, there are too many for YOU to know. Think that cop or any court would buy that excuse? I didn't think so.
    Agreed 100%

    If you where ignorant of the law they would gladly toss your butt in jail!

    He was not in the wrong nor did he break any laws yet he still got cuffed... detain isn't the same thing as arrest but still!
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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