Don't know source of this but might be good news.

This is a discussion on Don't know source of this but might be good news. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Rob P. Further, military bases are drug havens even though it is a really bad offense if you're caught. Oh really?....I've been ...

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  1. #31
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    Further, military bases are drug havens even though it is a really bad offense if you're caught.
    Oh really?....I've been living/working on military bases for the last 16 years...please cite your source for this assumption...because this sounds like garbage left over from the 1960s-70s.
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    The Military is goofy at best with regard to these things...

    I remember when I was on Stateside Armory Guard Duty in North Carolina during a time when Armory's on military bases had been attacked and robbed, I had 5 rounds issued to me and they were not for my personal protection but were to be used as warning/alarm shots only!

    I sure do hope things have improved since the early 70's!
    Not really. There is no Armory guard. Just the OOD (for you none military, Officer Of the Day) and his M9 on hip. I think he makes one trip a night to the Armory.
    Just remember: When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Oh really?....I've been living/working on military bases for the last 16 years...please cite your source for this assumption...because this sounds like garbage left over from the 1960s-70s.
    I am a veteran. I served my tour in the 70's. My wife is a veteran. She served her tour in the early 80's.

    We were both NCO's and lived in the barracks. We KNOW the kind of crap that happens on base. We KNOW the mentality of the people who are in the military. WE KNOW how much drug use, alcohol abuse, and general insanity happens in the military. We know this without a doubt. And we are not the only ones who have seen or lived through the sort of stuff we experienced.

    If your service has not seen what true life is like in the military you are either a BS artist or an out-and-out liar. That's a legitimate flame as far as I'm concerned because, as I said, I KNOW what the heck I'm saying here and you apparently do not. You have no experience with rape. Nor have you apparently been stabbed. Or tortured and burned. Or beaten while on a US MILITARY BASE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES! In each of these situations that I have first hand knowledge of, a gun would not have been any use for self defense. In fact, both my wife and I know that unrestricted access to guns would make matters WORSE.

    Your post is asking me to prove with pictures and arrows with a description on the back what my MEMORY and EXPERIENCES tell me actually happened. What you will do now is attempt to ridicule my first hand knowledge with your unsupported difference of opinion because you didn't experience anything and claim that you are "the winner" of the debate. If so, you are an ass.

    You want REAL hard cold facts? Do some research on suicide rates for military members. They're pretty high. Do you think that giving these folks more access to guns will cut that rate? Next. do some research on PTSD (or whatever the hell they're calling it now). Pretty ugly statistics there which access to guns won't solve. In fact, access to guns by these folks could lead to MORE of the same sort of thing that happened at Ft. Hood. So, how's about before you say anything else like this you do some homework FIRST instead of saying stupid things like "prove it" on an internet forum.

    As for things being different on a base vis a vis civilian arrangements, there is a HUGE difference. I know. I lived it. I survived it. As did my wife. Glad to hear you didn't have to for whatever sheltered reason you had but that doesn't give you the right to call me on the carpet for it and say that it isn't true.

    ANYONE who believes that unrestricted access to guns on a military installation will magically solve the world's problems needs some serious help. That sort of belief is as stupid as believing that waving a gun at a BG will somehow magically stop him from committing a crime against you.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    ....
    ANYONE who believes that unrestricted access to guns on a military installation will magically solve the world's problems needs some serious help. That sort of belief is as stupid as believing that waving a gun at a BG will somehow magically stop him from committing a crime against you.
    I have followed this thread from the beginning.

    I don't remember anyone saying "waving a gun at a BG will somehow magically stop him from committing a crime against you."

    You can't carry a cop/MP 24/7. The likelihood of a cop/MP/SP/MA being there when you need one is slim. However, at every violent crime there is one constant -- the victim is present.

    Unarmed potential victims does not reduce the number of actual victims.

    IMHO, (as I said earlier) the legal basis for servicemen/women to carry firearms while in the States is the basic human right to self defense -- which, also IMHO will reduce the the number of actual victims.

    Will there be other consequences? Yes. However the very description you present proves the "unarmed potential victims" approach is a failure. Why not look for a solution to that failure?

    A text book definition of mental illness is repeating the same action/process and expecting different results -- as in NY, NJ, Chicago, Detroit, military bases (if they are as bad as you document), etc. Why continue this illness?

    Your very description cries out for an armed deterrent.
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  6. #35
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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  7. #36
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    I am a veteran. I served my tour in the 70's. My wife is a veteran. She served her tour in the early 80's.

    We were both NCO's and lived in the barracks. We KNOW the kind of crap that happens on base. We KNOW the mentality of the people who are in the military. WE KNOW how much drug use, alcohol abuse, and general insanity happens in the military. We know this without a doubt. And we are not the only ones who have seen or lived through the sort of stuff we experienced.

    If your service has not seen what true life is like in the military you are either a BS artist or an out-and-out liar. That's a legitimate flame as far as I'm concerned because, as I said, I KNOW what the heck I'm saying here and you apparently do not. You have no experience with rape. Nor have you apparently been stabbed. Or tortured and burned. Or beaten while on a US MILITARY BASE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES! In each of these situations that I have first hand knowledge of, a gun would not have been any use for self defense. In fact, both my wife and I know that unrestricted access to guns would make matters WORSE.

    Your post is asking me to prove with pictures and arrows with a description on the back what my MEMORY and EXPERIENCES tell me actually happened. What you will do now is attempt to ridicule my first hand knowledge with your unsupported difference of opinion because you didn't experience anything and claim that you are "the winner" of the debate. If so, you are an ass.

    You want REAL hard cold facts? Do some research on suicide rates for military members. They're pretty high. Do you think that giving these folks more access to guns will cut that rate? Next. do some research on PTSD (or whatever the hell they're calling it now). Pretty ugly statistics there which access to guns won't solve. In fact, access to guns by these folks could lead to MORE of the same sort of thing that happened at Ft. Hood. So, how's about before you say anything else like this you do some homework FIRST instead of saying stupid things like "prove it" on an internet forum.

    As for things being different on a base vis a vis civilian arrangements, there is a HUGE difference. I know. I lived it. I survived it. As did my wife. Glad to hear you didn't have to for whatever sheltered reason you had but that doesn't give you the right to call me on the carpet for it and say that it isn't true.

    ANYONE who believes that unrestricted access to guns on a military installation will magically solve the world's problems needs some serious help. That sort of belief is as stupid as believing that waving a gun at a BG will somehow magically stop him from committing a crime against you.
    Please read and understand before you respond ,
    i have listened to both your sides of the story and as a CURRENT MP and being stationed in the meth capital and suicide capital of the Great US of A (Washington State) i know some may disagree but i dont want to get into that SGT you are right ....in some ways and kinda not in others YES we do have a drug problem in the military BUT as DOD puts it 1 person on drugs is a problem,And YES suicide is a Problem as well the rate has incressed based on last years numbers BUT again as we in the military say all the time one is to many .....Please SGT look at the stats for the same in the civilan world using the current number of people in DOD and you will see its lower in the military than in the civilan world and yes i looked it up before i spoke ,again PLease take not offence to this as it was something i just needed to say to get to this point as wel :

    I said this in another thread on this fourm and i really wish more people would listen to more than just the worst cases out there,SGT i suffer from PTSD i also ccw whenam not overseas in a COMBAT ZONE still i have issues .....i drink ALOT(when am stateside)(no i dont cc or drive at all once i start drinking) its 0203 in iraq and i still am not sleeping the nightmares suck the thing i see the thing i remeber having to do ....yes am constally alert(Question dont the DC classes tell you to be observant and alert?) yes i get mad quickly but i know how to walk away , NO ME AND MY FRIENDS WHO CARRY ARNT CRAZY!!!! i hate when former military people start this stuff quite with the damaged people ****(stuff) am toatlly capable of protecting the country you servered and love and am totally will to give my life in her defence that is why i still do the job today and will continue to untill my country says she doesnt need me to help any more. i know she doesnt care if i have PTSD or not she just loves the fact that me and the few like you at one time will stand and defend her !!!!!!!!! Please unless YOU have it or suffer like some of us do dont talk about it till YOU experianced it cause research wont tell you anything about it tell you live with it


    p.s even my mother who is an anti likes to see me when i carry she does not like the gun but she gets to talk to her son when i do carry cause as she has said "War took the son i knew away from me ...The gun he carrys to feel safe allows my baby boy to come back just ever so little it might be but hes there"(sent via email)(call her to have her repeat it to me so i could type it out)

    Again please dont add the PTSD labal to us just like you dont like anyone labaling you or anyone on this fourm as carzy gun owners looking for a fight or a reson to use there gun!!!

    o and by the way thanks for clumping me(currently on my SECOND TOUR IN IRAQ in with Hasan(NEVER DEPLOYED) as someone capible of killing my own brother and sisters you sir are a true ......wel i would type the three letter word to go with this but i dont wanna get banned so i will replace it with a word that means the exact same thin ....again. you truly are a butthat,thank you for degrading me for things other people have done and the media twists to sound like PSTD is the anwser.


    again sorry if i offended you SGT but LOL you started it LOL

    SPC.Damion Castro
    Baghdad, Iraq
    MISFIT 3-2
    Last edited by Damion; November 12th, 2009 at 06:38 PM. Reason: add a line or two
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  8. #37
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    I hate to admit it, but armed off-duty soldiers with gun racks in the barracks would be a bad idea, because ONE bad mad drunk drugged deranged strange sailor, soldier or airperson could kill a hell of a lot more with an M-4, the new M-16, if you know what I mean. During the darkness, I and other fellow soldiers were attacked by roving roaming gangs of black GI guys, stateside and overseas, during the early 1970s, so sad and bad that race relations were bad. I wanted to kill someone with a gun! I wanted revenge! Maybe that would have stopped it? After basic training, most of us in the Army Signal Corp never even touched, much less shot, a gun anymore. At Prum Post, they had to lock our guardshack M-16 inside a glass-fronted red wooden case to keep us from aiming and playing with it; one of the guys pointed it at our shift sergeant and clicked the trigger at him. That ended that.

  9. #38
    Ex Member Array Cold Warrior's Avatar
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    At Prum Post, In 1972, after the Munich olympic massacre and the Baader-Meinhoff and Red Brigades attacks, we grabbed our helmest and web gear and ran up to the MP station...to get our night sticks and flashlights to patrol the fenceline, between the back of the barracks and the thick German pine trees, even the gate guard remaining unarmed.

  10. #39
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
    I hate to admit it, but armed off-duty soldiers with gun racks in the barracks would be a bad idea, because ONE bad mad drunk drugged deranged strange sailor, soldier or airperson could kill a hell of a lot more with an M-4, the new M-16, if you know what I mean. During the darkness, I and other fellow soldiers were attacked by roving roaming gangs of black GI guys, stateside and overseas, during the early 1970s, so sad and bad that race relations were bad. I wanted to kill someone with a gun! I wanted revenge! Maybe that would have stopped it? After basic training, most of us in the Army Signal Corp never even touched, much less shot, a gun anymore. At Prum Post, they had to lock our guardshack M-16 inside a glass-fronted red wooden case to keep us from aiming and playing with it; one of the guys pointed it at our shift sergeant and clicked the trigger at him. That ended that.
    i aggree with the m-4 m-16 but i think ccw should be BG's still do it why cant i to defend me and my brothers
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damion View Post
    p.s even my mother who is an anti likes to see me when i carry she does not like the gun but she gets to talk to her son when i do carry cause as she has said "War took the son i knew away from me ...The gun he carrys to feel safe allows my baby boy to come back just ever so little it might be but hes there"(
    Wow.

    An echo of my mother, may she rest in peace. She always blamed the Corps for stealing her baby boy -- up to her death, some thirty years after I joined.
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  12. #41
    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    I am a veteran. I served my tour in the 70's. My wife is a veteran. She served her tour in the early 80's.

    We were both NCO's and lived in the barracks. We KNOW the kind of crap that happens on base. We KNOW the mentality of the people who are in the military. WE KNOW how much drug use, alcohol abuse, and general insanity happens in the military. We know this without a doubt. And we are not the only ones who have seen or lived through the sort of stuff we experienced.
    My service began in the 70's and ended in the 90's, and yes there was a lot of drug abuse in the 70's and early 80's. But since then the military (the Army at least) cracked down on it and greatly reduced the illegal drug use.

    I currently work for the Army as a civilian and I'm sure there is still some illegal drug activity. After all, the military reflects the society it comes from.

    But if we rule out allowing people to carry firearms in their own defense because of the possibility of drug use or the possibility of becoming violent then you would have to disarm everyone - everywhere.

    You can't prevent violence from happening. The best we can do is try to avoid it if possible or to deal with it if we can't.
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  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Censored View Post
    This is What a new resident moving to Israel would have to do to be licensed to own a handgun. Note the 3 year residency requirement.

    The Nefesh B'Nefesh Aliyahpedia

    Wow! I had no idea Israel had such strong gun control laws! Forget the 3 year wait! That's nothing compared to but not limited to;
    - having to be a Jew that's immigrating ( Aliyah )
    - then you also must be living in the West Bank for 3 years?
    - Pass a Hebrew test
    - you can only have ONE PISTOL if you do get approved - no rifles for anyone not in the security forces.

    Just, Wow! Thanks for posting that link. We may become the very last bastion of freemen in the world - if we're not already.

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by billdeserthills View Post
    And that is why I will Not be moving to Israel.


    yep , Me too!

    Although it sounds almost like paridise;:; for the gun ban crowd


    "To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic." Ted Nugent
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  15. #44
    VIP Member Array cphilip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob P. View Post
    I am a veteran. I served my tour in the 70's. My wife is a veteran. She served her tour in the early 80's.

    We were both NCO's and lived in the barracks. We KNOW the kind of crap that happens on base. We KNOW the mentality of the people who are in the military. WE KNOW how much drug use, alcohol abuse, and general insanity happens in the military. We know this without a doubt. And we are not the only ones who have seen or lived through the sort of stuff we experienced.

    If your service has not seen what true life is like in the military you are either a BS artist or an out-and-out liar. That's a legitimate flame as far as I'm concerned because, as I said, I KNOW what the heck I'm saying here and you apparently do not. You have no experience with rape. Nor have you apparently been stabbed. Or tortured and burned. Or beaten while on a US MILITARY BASE INSIDE THE UNITED STATES! In each of these situations that I have first hand knowledge of, a gun would not have been any use for self defense. In fact, both my wife and I know that unrestricted access to guns would make matters WORSE.

    Your post is asking me to prove with pictures and arrows with a description on the back what my MEMORY and EXPERIENCES tell me actually happened. What you will do now is attempt to ridicule my first hand knowledge with your unsupported difference of opinion because you didn't experience anything and claim that you are "the winner" of the debate. If so, you are an ass.

    You want REAL hard cold facts? Do some research on suicide rates for military members. They're pretty high. Do you think that giving these folks more access to guns will cut that rate? Next. do some research on PTSD (or whatever the hell they're calling it now). Pretty ugly statistics there which access to guns won't solve. In fact, access to guns by these folks could lead to MORE of the same sort of thing that happened at Ft. Hood. So, how's about before you say anything else like this you do some homework FIRST instead of saying stupid things like "prove it" on an internet forum.

    As for things being different on a base vis a vis civilian arrangements, there is a HUGE difference. I know. I lived it. I survived it. As did my wife. Glad to hear you didn't have to for whatever sheltered reason you had but that doesn't give you the right to call me on the carpet for it and say that it isn't true.

    ANYONE who believes that unrestricted access to guns on a military installation will magically solve the world's problems needs some serious help. That sort of belief is as stupid as believing that waving a gun at a BG will somehow magically stop him from committing a crime against you.
    With all due respect Rob... they already have a no gun policy on base and how did that work out for them?

    Your proposing a continuance of law abiding men and woman remaining unable to defend themselves as a solution to a problem that already proved that theory failed.

    If we follow your logic then all guns should be banned as it would prevent all murders, rapes and suicides. Again... how well did that work out if Ft Hood? How well has it worked these other places?

    The Crux of your argument is a complete ban on private ownership of guns. You either don't put two and two together and realize that or it is really what you mean. It sounds like a "we MP's are the only ones should have them" mentality to me. It also smacks of the "Blood will run deep in the streets" hysteria that accompanied Concealed Weapons permitting and self defense laws.

    I know that you know you have seen bad things. But the problem is that your have it backwards... the worse they are... the more you have NO RIGHT to take away one right to protect him/her self in that situation. The MORE you must allow it.

    No doubt people will die either way. No one can completely stop it. But hopefully next time it will be more bad guys than good guys. Or at least give em a chance!

    I respect your opinion but entirely disagree with it.

  16. #45
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    ^^^^ here here as an MP i agree with cphilip entirely sorry rob as a fellow MP i cant bback you up on this as i said in my post
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