Traffic stop procedure - Page 2

Traffic stop procedure

This is a discussion on Traffic stop procedure within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I respect cops and the challenges they face. I stick my hands out the window and if at night I also turn the interior light ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array Diablo's Avatar
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    I respect cops and the challenges they face. I stick my hands out the window and if at night I also turn the interior light on. Thankfully, I have only been stopped once in the past 6 plus years living here in FL.

    But I will not inform an officer that I'm carrying (not required in FL). The way I see it is...I'm no bigger threat than someone not carrying, so why potentially escalate the situation by telling.

    Now if I'm asked, I'm not going to lie. Or if for some reason I was asked to get out of my vehicle (which isn't a good thing) I would say something before getting out. In either instance, I would probably but both hands on the wheel before doing so.


  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    i wouldnt blame an leo if he left the empty mag on the street beside the car and told me not to pick it up until he was in his cruiser. they take enough risk and permit holder or not they dont really know who they are dealing with. there are some inconveniences we just have to live with in todays society. i am not going to pretend that when an leo sees my ccw that he should be thanking me for doing him a favor.
    oh...i dont mind taking my shoes off in the airport either. its good to let the boys breath now and then and if it prevents one wipe from carrying something onto a plane its ok with me.

  3. #18
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    oh...i dont mind taking my shoes off in the airport either.
    I'm so sorry to hijack this thread...but (there's always a but isn't there) this is one of my hot buttons.

    Taking off your shoes is all about feeling safer but doesn't do squat for security. What it does do is spread a lot of urine and crap from the floor to everybody's bags and clothes. Back when we were given a choice, I would always refuse to remove my shoes and get the wanding.

    This was instituted after one moron put explosives in his shoe. Check out this link Here. Would you mind getting a rectal exam before getting on the plane? I'm for security procedures that work, but not for stupidity.

    I live in MI so I have to inform but I can certainly see the logic in not informing. Disarming a law abiding person does nothing but increase the risk of an ND or negligent shooting of the person. Basically it's saying that the cop's safety is more important than the persons.

  4. #19
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    There is no standard mandate for how to handle a CCW on a traffic stop or other official encounter. And there is good reason for that; every situation is unique.
    I will very rarely disarm a permit holder. I just don't see the point in most cases.

    On the rare occasion that I do, its because they are acting squirrelly or otherwise giving me a reason too.

    I just arrested a permit holder this week. It started out as a simple traffic stop. I approached the car, and the guy was acting as goofy as could be. I could see that he was armed, and I already knew he had a valid permit. As the conversation went past three sentences, I knew something was up. So I pulled him out of the car and disarmed him, much to his protest. He gave the same arguments that we read here every time time this topic comes up.
    Long story short, he had a open beer and a bag of coke in the car. I would have hated to see the outcome had I not disarmed him as soon as I confirmed his goofyness.

    I guess my point is, officers have to rely on their experience and "spidey senses". To take that away in favor of an across the board mandate on how to deal with certain situations always cripples the officer and does nothing good for anybody.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    There is no standard mandate for how to handle a CCW on a traffic stop or other official encounter. And there is good reason for that; every situation is unique.
    I will very rarely disarm a permit holder. I just don't see the point in most cases.

    On the rare occasion that I do, its because they are acting squirrelly or otherwise giving me a reason too.

    I just arrested a permit holder this week. It started out as a simple traffic stop. I approached the car, and the guy was acting as goofy as could be. I could see that he was armed, and I already knew he had a valid permit. As the conversation went past three sentences, I knew something was up. So I pulled him out of the car and disarmed him, much to his protest. He gave the same arguments that we read here every time time this topic comes up.
    Long story short, he had a open beer and a bag of coke in the car. I would have hated to see the outcome had I not disarmed him as soon as I confirmed his goofyness.

    I guess my point is, officers have to rely on their experience and "spidey senses". To take that away in favor of an across the board mandate on how to deal with certain situations always cripples the officer and does nothing good for anybody.
    Nice post.

    I use the ten and two method and have never had any problems. Then again I don't drink or snort and drive.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycler View Post
    Taking off your shoes is all about feeling safer but doesn't do squat for security.
    I agree completely.

    What it does do is spread a lot of urine and crap from the floor to everybody's bags and clothes.
    I don't know about your airport, but all that I have been in, including airports in several countries, were civilized enough that they didn't allow peeing on the floor in the security areas.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #22
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I just arrested a permit holder this week. It started out as a simple traffic stop. I approached the car, and the guy was acting as goofy as could be. I could see that he was armed, and I already knew he had a valid permit. As the conversation went past three sentences, I knew something was up. So I pulled him out of the car and disarmed him, much to his protest. He gave the same arguments that we read here every time time this topic comes up.
    Long story short, he had a open beer and a bag of coke in the car. I would have hated to see the outcome had I not disarmed him as soon as I confirmed his goofyness.
    Is it safe to presume that this will cost him his permit? It should!
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Is it safe to presume that this will cost him his permit? It should!
    Yeah, he's done.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    Is it safe to presume that this will cost him his permit? It should!

    His permit is the last of his concerns. He will most likely spend some time as a guest in a rehabilitation facility being careful not to drop his soap in the shower.

  10. #25
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    First, let me say that I've only stopped one CHL holder, wasn't armed, didn't have any issues, etc

    As a CHL holder (pre-LEO days) I was stopped 3 times, twice I had gun on my hip, once it was in a bag in the center of the floor-front seat
    I was never asked to do anything with the weapon, etc

    I personally think the bit about unloading the weapon and unloading the magazine, handing all the rounds back with empty weapon/mag is a little overboard. I actually heard a story from a friend that had the same thing happen to him on a stop no too far from here.

    If you are asked to give your weapon you should request that the officer get the weapon from you rather than you hand it over. Heck, ask him to let you out and take the gun from you. If he absolutely will not let that happen then remove holster and all in a slow meticulous method, talking to him while doing it explaining what you're doing (you and LEO are being recorded). Even then, ask him to tell his backup officer what he requested and what you're doing.

    His partner's watching from the passenger side, therefore he can't hear the instruction; the partner sees you pull your gun. The partner is going to stick his gun in your ear and could ruin your whole day.
    I hope this never happens, but if I see someone pull a gun, I won't be getting close enough to them to stick my muzzle in their ear. They'll most likely get shot.
    That said, our department doesn't ask people to hand us guns on traffic stops.
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  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycler View Post
    I'm so sorry to hijack this thread...but (there's always a but isn't there) this is one of my hot buttons.

    Taking off your shoes is all about feeling safer but doesn't do squat for security. What it does do is spread a lot of urine and crap from the floor to everybody's bags and clothes. Back when we were given a choice, I would always refuse to remove my shoes and get the wanding.

    This was instituted after one moron put explosives in his shoe. Check out this link Here. Would you mind getting a rectal exam before getting on the plane? I'm for security procedures that work, but not for stupidity.

    I live in MI so I have to inform but I can certainly see the logic in not informing. Disarming a law abiding person does nothing but increase the risk of an ND or negligent shooting of the person. Basically it's saying that the cop's safety is more important than the persons.
    if you were sorry to hijack the thread you wouldnt...
    the statement was made not just about feeling secure but about the fact that there are inconveniences we put up with because of what somebody is willing to do to terrorize us...it does carry over to what an leo has to put up with and what he feels may be necessary at any given time to protect himself and possibly others.

    great example with the rectal exam though...i see the comparison to removing my shoes...at least in your airport...

    maybe now that youve had a chance to read a post from an leo who snatched a bag of coke and an open container out of a permit holders vehicle you might understand the point..

    sorry about the urine in your airports also...but thats another forum i'm sure...

  12. #27
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    maybe now that youve had a chance to read a post from an leo who snatched a bag of coke and an open container out of a permit holders vehicle you might understand the point..
    I'm not against the option of an LEO disarming someone, I'm just against doing it as SOP. I think the LEO that disarmed the coke dealer did right and he did so by using techniques that work for ensuring security - keeping a good SA and noticing that the guy was acting squirrelly. That type of SA is what kept the 20'th terrorist out of the country for the 9/11 attack.

    great example with the rectal exam though...i see the comparison to removing my shoes...at least in your airport...

    sorry about the urine in your airports also...but thats another forum i'm sure...
    I don't know what the bathrooms look like in your airport, but for some reason in Detroit metro, it seems impossible for the men at the urinals to actually hit the target so to speak. There's pools of disgusting urine on the floor in those bathrooms that just disgust me.

    What disgusts me even more is that I've walked into the bathroom to take a leak before going through security as I'm sure many other passengers do, and then I'm asked to remove my shoes and place them on the security belt as is everyone else. In my experience, about 95% of the passengers put their shoes - which they were wearing in the public restrooms - right in the bin where I'm required to put my coat/sweater/laptop etc. I've never seen those bins wiped for sanitation as they're being transfered back to the 'non-secure' area. This is how urine and other crap that's stuck to the bottom of your shoe gets transfered to your things.

    The point I'm bringing up about the rectal exam is that in the case of the shoe bomber, they instituted a policy to have everyone remove their shoes before crossing through security because that was how he did it.

    This resulted in about a .00000000001% chance that they'll catch another shoe bomber. It also resulted in a 100% chance that the filth on the bottom of your shoe will be transfered to your things in the bin.

    This procedure was adopted because it's a very visible example of TSA "doing something" about terrorists even though it does little to prevent actual acts of terror.

    Let's say the shoe bomber had actually been the 'rectal bomber' and he was caught trying to light a fuse sticking out of his butt. Do you think it would be rational to force everyone to submit to a rectal exam for the sake of security? Is that a good security trade off?

    What makes sense is to train LEO, TSA etc. to observe for behaviors that point toward something fishy going on. The LEO that found the 8-ball of coke did just that and he was right to disarm the guy.

    What I don't like is that some LEO's disarm a CCW holder as a mater of course. All that does is provide another opportunity for an accident while providing the smallest increase in security for the LEO.

    I've never been stopped while carrying but if I'm stopped, I'll keep my hands at 10 & 2 and fully inform. If he wants to disarm me, I'll follow the instructions in the original post.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array Curt58's Avatar
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    I was stopped by the Texas DPS last month for speeding.
    I was!
    When I saw in my miror the Patrol car turn around to come after me I found a nice safe place to pull into and wait for him. We were on a back country road just down from my house. There are Oil Field driveways everywhere, so I pulled into the first one I came to.
    I exited the car as he was turning in and had all my paperwork in my hands facing him.
    My pistol was in the door pocket cocked and ready to rock, as they say.
    As the Officer approached he had this pissed off look on his face and so I smiled and said "Didn't want you to be nervous, I have a loaded weapon in the door pocket and thought you'd rather I not be near it."
    I handed him my license, my chl and my insurance papers.
    Then I leaned back against the left rear fender and folded my arm in front of me and crossed my feet as I stood there. He leaned over like he was looking in my car. I assume to check and see if I was indead alone. Or maybe to see if I had an open beer in the consol. (I don't drink, so no problem there) Then he said "stay right there" and returned to his car. " No problem!", I said.
    I didn't move. Heck, I wan't even upset. I think this is the first time I ever got a ticket I deserved!
    He brought me the ticket book to sign in less than three minutes I signed and we were on our way.

    Sad thing about it was I was driving my sons Turbo Volvo and had been running the cruise control at the speed limit on this nice curvy road for 8 miles, until I came to this pair of turns within a 1/4 mile of where he clocked me. Less than a mile from my house!
    I wanted to see how well the Volvo handled the turns so I bumped it up a little, since there was no traffic on the road I thought I'd have a little fun. As I exited the second turn I lifted my foot to let it slow back to the speed limit. And there he was. That quarter mile of fun was expensive.

    Wasn't any big deal of a stop. If it had been dark it would have been a little more stressful, maybe.

    My son says High Dollar European cars get no mercy from the DPS.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array mastercapt's Avatar
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    Stopped

    About 2 years ago, when the daylight savings time changed, I was driving to work in the dark, when it was light the week before. At a 4 way stop, with nobody at eth other 3 corners, as soon as the car stopped, I went ahead. Not a jack-rabbit start, buy a leisurely pace. On come the blues from the darkened side street. I pulled over, kicked on the cab light ( SUV with tinted windows), and put my hands on the wheel. The trooper came up to the side window. I informed him I was armed and it was in the center box, and I had a permit. he sadi OK, get out of the car. I met him at the rear. he said I did not stop. I said I did. He said I he did not see thebumper go down and come back up. I told him it was a 4X4 with a heavy duty suspension package and did not do that.
    He had me wait at the rear, and ran my license. No tickets on it so he gave me a warning, and thanked me for informing.
    As the LEO posted, if the weapon was discovered without being informed and you hands went near it, he would have shot you. Thats why I inform and do whatever they ask. If they are in control, and you are NOT a BG, it goes down professionally. Hey, they want to go home at night, too.

    I am a boater. When stopped on the water by a CG or state officer, they will flat ask if you have any guns aboard, and where are they?
    They will take custody of them until the stop is over, and returm them. Don't even think about giving them a hard time.

  15. #30
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    Thanks, Sixto and 64Z for explaining it better than I could. I am a reserve officer and put in about 20-40 hours patrol a month. I do not believe I have ever ticketed a person with a CHP. I have only had a handful of stops with with someone with a CHP. I did have one stop where his CHP did not come up on his DL check but I already had the permit in hand. And I have never had a radio call where we had to deal with a CHP holder. I guess that says a little about the people who do carry with a permit.

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