What do you members think? - Page 2

What do you members think?

This is a discussion on What do you members think? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The people that put their self in that situation do it because they do not have a choice. I like to say that I wouldn't ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    The people that put their self in that situation do it because they do not have a choice. I like to say that I wouldn't step in. Why put my family in that situation. But then again I know I could not stand by and watch something like the kid in Chicago that got beat to death with boards and what not.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato


  2. #17
    New Member Array Shock an Awe's Avatar
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    I try to avoid all altercation. I would use my weapon for situation that were only life threaten or if others were in grave danger. I would never turn my back on a human being in need. Thats why I work were I work. BG are different these days not like in the past, they will kill you and your family members and not have a care in the world. Just watch some of the shows about gangbangers and see and listen how they think, you can't even comprehend.

  3. #18
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone here would simply walk away from a group of hoods beating down an old lady, or an urban gang wailing on a school kid with a plank. Debating this issue is like the people who debate abortion by citing cases of rape or incest. Don't let the miniscule probabilities obscure the big picture.

    I have seen folks here who think a one-day course, some cash (tax) for the county sheriff, and a $400 handgun makes them a mini-LEO or a super-hero-in-waiting. Personally, I refuse to use the oft-cited term "sheepdog" and I most certainly find the epithet "sheep" (as applied to non-carrying citizens) silly and arrogant. Your neighbors and friends may perceive their risks differently from you and choose not to carry. That doesn't make them fools.

    If you think of yourself as a "sheepdog" for the local populace, you are asking for potential legal and most certainly moral problems. Keep the mindset that your ccw is for you and your family, and only if you are put in mortal danger by another human being or animal. Anything outside that strict interpretation is an opportunity to make a decision you may regret the rest of your life.

  4. #19
    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    I'm with Hoss on this one, I could not turn and walk away from someone in trouble. I have in the past helped people in need and would do it again.
    To each their own but I could not sleep if I witnessed something and did nothing to help. Each case is different but to do absolutely nothing goes against my most basic instinct to help.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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  5. #20
    Member Array bornlucky's Avatar
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    I to will not let anyone abuse an individual. A senior citizen, young child, it is not right that they can come to harm. I am a transpant from NYC, and you members know how NYC and CC goes. Now, I live in Missouri, and things are a whole lot different here! I recently received my CC permit and I take the whole behavior serious. This is the reason a posted, I wanted to get different views!

  6. #21
    Member Array Censored's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slim_45 View Post
    God bless Texas



    AMEN! and He has.
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    If I'm repeating myself, or repeating myself differently, it's probably 'cause of the brain cells I've murdered and the selective memory caused by concussions, contusions and confusions. Oh yeah, and that one night in Dallas.

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  7. #22
    ctm
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    I don't think anyone here would simply walk away from a group of hoods beating down an old lady, or an urban gang wailing on a school kid with a plank. Debating this issue is like the people who debate abortion by citing cases of rape or incest. Don't let the miniscule probabilities obscure the big picture.

    I have seen folks here who think a one-day course, some cash (tax) for the county sheriff, and a $400 handgun makes them a mini-LEO or a super-hero-in-waiting. Personally, I refuse to use the oft-cited term "sheepdog" and I most certainly find the epithet "sheep" (as applied to non-carrying citizens) silly and arrogant. Your neighbors and friends may perceive their risks differently from you and choose not to carry. That doesn't make them fools.

    If you think of yourself as a "sheepdog" for the local populace, you are asking for potential legal and most certainly moral problems. Keep the mindset that your ccw is for you and your family, and only if you are put in mortal danger by another human being or animal. Anything outside that strict interpretation is an opportunity to make a decision you may regret the rest of your life.
    Whatever is right for you!

    Being a "sheepdog" has nothing to do with being a "mini-LEO or a super hero in waiting". It is about having the balls to jump in and help another person, or even an animal that is in need. Whether it be a mugging, a drowning, a car wreck,...etc....etc...
    I will do anything I can to help a "sheep", which is not a deragatory statement about someone to me, it simply implies that they may not be aware of, or be able to help themselves in the situation at hand.

    If you are ever in need of help, and I am around...
    you will be happy that I am proud to say "I AM A SHEEPDOG" and I WILL help you!

  8. #23
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctm View Post
    If you are ever in need of help, and I am around...
    you will be happy that I am proud to say "I AM A SHEEPDOG" and I WILL help you!
    Golly, thanks Batman!

    Please allow me to clarify:

    I am not saying you shouldn't be a Good Samaritan and help people. I give to charity, mentor and teach underprivileged kids, and will pull over to help someone change a tire.

    What I am saying, however, is that it would really have to be an extraordinary and patently obvious situation for me to attempt to kill another human being with my handgun while interceding on behalf of a stranger. That is all.

  9. #24
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    We have members here of all different ages and differing degrees of physical fitness.

    Some of our members have health and/or disability concerns.

    Some members are married & have children.

    Some members are single and do not have children at home.

    All of the above and many other factors will likely (in some way) influence if a person interjects themselves into some scenario that is not directly their own.

    Everybody should give the possibility some deep thought and find their own answers within themselves.

    MUCH would also depend on the exact event that is going down.

    For instance if a good guy DC member is 60 years old (in average physical condition) and is armed with only a six shot revolver and a gang of 9 thugs are beating on some individual...it might be much more prudent to call 911 than to start attempting to pick off bad guys in sharpshooter fashion.

    In that scenario (and if all goes flawlessly) the good guy would be at least 3 cartridges shy of making it home alive.

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    I got this in an email from USCCA the other day

    I was out walking in our neighborhood a couple of days ago around dusk. I was almost through with my walk, when I noticed a couple of girls, probably around 5 or 6 years old, walking toward me about a block away. Now our neighborhood is a middle-class, blue-collar, very safe neighborhood, so nothing unusual about this.

    A few seconds later, an earlier-model small sedan with faded paint stopped by the girls, and a man emerged and approached the girls. Still nothing particularly unusual, but I became more interested. The man was wearing dirty jeans, work boots, a dirty T-shirt and a black baseball cap. The man exchanged a few words with the girls, and then grabbed one of them by the arm. She tried to fall to the ground kicking and screaming, and her friend ran away.

    The man dragged the screaming girl around to the driver side of the car and pushed her in, and then slid in behind her. Now I was on high alert. As the vehicle started towards me, I had by then approached within about 50 yards and drawn my Glock 26. I had a clear shot at the driver's head through the windshield. As I took aim, I remembered that the Texas Penal Code gives one the right to protect the lives of third parties. Specifically, Section 9.33 reads:

    "A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:

    (1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the third person he seeks to protect; and

    (2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately necessary to protect the third person.
    The Texas CHL course is very good at educating students about the legal ramifications of concealed carry, and I had an excellent instructor. But our instructor also hit very hard on the point that we should all decide whether we would be willing to risk going to jail and depriving our families of a husband and father for many years over the death of an innocent bystander in the attempt to protect a third party.

    All of this was going through my head. This all seemed to be happening in slow motion, and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Rather than shooting, I lowered my gun and got the license number of the car as it went by me. I used my cell phone to call 911 and report the abduction. Chills went through my body as a few hours later, an officer called me to let me know that they had located the car and driver at his residence a few blocks away.

    It turned out that the man was the girl's father and he stopped to pick her up on her way home because dinner was waiting. The girl had other ideas - she was determined to walk home with her next-door girl-friend.
    It is the precise reason why I don’t get involved unless I know for 100% sure what is going on.

    I carry a firearm to defend myself and my family as a last resort and I pity the “sheep dog” who thinks I’m a sheep under his care.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    I'm in my 40's and have had a CHL since 93. I'm proud to say that I've never needed to put my hand on my gun nor have I been in a fist fight since I was a teenager.

    I understand what the OP is saying. Your gun doesn't make you 10' tall and bullet proof. At least not to me.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  12. #27
    GM
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    Quote Originally Posted by bornlucky View Post
    I personally would not get in any situation that does not concern my family and myself.
    If a member of your family was assaulted by an offender while you are not present, would you like that other CCWer defend him/her? I guess you should.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  13. #28
    Ex Member Array Treo's Avatar
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    If a member of your family was assaulted by an offender while you are not present, would you like that other CCWer defend him/her? I guess you should.
    If my wife is ever in that situation the CCW permit closest and in the best position to help her would be........her

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  14. #29
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    Every one has a different reason they started carrying, I did because I refuse to be a victim of violence in any form - this extends to my family and friends. I would not hesitate to help some one if I thought that I could, and I don't leave any options off of the table because you never know what situation you might find yourself in. I am prepared to kill if need be, but hope I dont have to.

    R
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

  15. #30
    Member Array Bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C9H13NO3 View Post
    Good point I hadn't thought about really, but if you were to draw instead on someone unarmed who is attacking you and there's no disparity of force, you may be taking a trip to jail.
    WILL GO TO JAIL. And never go on feelings, feelings lie, big time. One must be absolutely positive, and be able to prove that "positive", if it goes to court.

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