This is a discussion on What do you members think? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Treo ... I carry a firearm to defend myself and my family as a last resort and I pity the “sheep dog” ...
"The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"
I'm not sure of that, I just don't expect it. That's why I carry a firearm that's also why my wife carries a firearm.If you are sure that you never will need that other people help you or your family in any circumstances, then you are a very lucky person.
I don’t carry a firearm to protect the people around me they chose to leave themselves defenseless. They’ll be grateful as hell when you do it but they won’t help pay your legal fees. They won’t take up a collection so your wife can keep her house after paying for your funeral. And they sure as hell won’t pay for your hospital fees and physical therapy after you slip on a patch of ice running to the rescue .
I'm sorry if that sounds cynical or selfish but it's reality. I have a family to take care of. I have bills to pay and I have people that expect me to be there for them. My first duty is to them. Does that mean I won't help the nieghbor shovel their walk or load a roto tiller into their truck:? Of course not.
What I won't do is engage in a gunfight where everyone is liable to get very badly hurt unless there is no other option open. I certainly won't do so on behalf of some random stranger when I'm not in posession of all the facts
Intervening can be a very dicey thing - because it's easy to be wrong.
The screaming kid being pulled by an aggressive man into a car that suddenly has stopped could be a kidnap victim or a child who's father found him after he left the yard for the FIFTH time that month, and is angry.
The guy running out of the store that someone on the street has screamed "robbery!" about- with that gun in his hand, may be the owner running out to see where the BG took off to.
The scrufty guy with the gun at the head of man in the fine clothes kneeling in the street, could be an undercover Fed arresting a high-stakes drug king-pin after a car chase.
A gang beating a woman is unmistakable it seems, and I would have no ethical choice but to intervene with my gun, pull it at least while calling 911.
In short, there are instances when it's appropriate, but it better be or we'll have a lifetime of guilt and likely prison time for shooting the father, or shooting the store owner, or shooting the FBI Agent.
Last edited by hamlet; November 14th, 2009 at 04:00 PM. Reason: spelling
There's some excellent points being made here and in short, I'll line up with cvHoss and Rottkeeper. Whether you consider yourself a sheepdog or a sheep is irrelevant in a moment of crises. IMO, that's when the animal in each of us comes out and we either decide to fight or evade.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with defending your fellow man, it's been going on since the dawn of time. If you're not into it so be it, but judging others for their willingness to defend a total strangers life or well being is ridiculous and without merit. I for one am glad there's folks like us out there and America was founded on the same principles.
I have to agree with Hamlet. This is just like a original post, you just do not know what the " STORY" is when you arrive, but you will find out if you branish your weapon and YOU decide to use it. I remember a moment in my life as I was walking down the streets in NYC one day. Here I come to a situation with a man beating a woman. I made a decision to try to stop this beating only to be verbally assaulted by the female to mind my ******* business. I was shocked, now I was the BG, who who have thought!
Remember what A, Lincoln said, I would rather stay quiet and say nothing and make people think I am dumb than speak and prove than right. I my be a little off in his quote but you understand ahat I am saying, I would rather stay outside a situation ( called the right people) than get into it and change my life forever. Now remember you would handle every situation differently, just be very very cautious!
What it basically boils down to is get involved or not.
And that’s a decision each and every one of us has to make on our own.
There are many factors to weigh, including analyzing the facts as you see them, risk to your family or friends who are with you, risk to bystanders, and then there are liability issues.
Some things to consider:
- A weapon is just a tool, and the only thing it does is give you options.
- You have no obligation to use it, and have many reasons not to.
- As a civilian you are not covered by a union, or liability insurance. So even if you are helpful, and only the BG gets hurt, your attorney expenses after the fact may cost you thousands.
- You only have a split second to make this decision that can affect the rest of your life.
With all things considered I’d say it’s best for civilians not to get involved, and instead call 911 and be a good witness. But, that’s hard to do sometime, and over the years I’ve found myself, getting involved, more times, than I’d like to count.
I'm not a cop, if I wanted to be one, I would have followed that career path years ago.
I only want a peaceful life, obligated to protecting myself and my family...all others need to take the same SD measures I did, and the 2A clearly made it possible.
If someone else chooses not to be armed, not to carry, not to be alert, not to get training or practice...then that same person should not expect me to step in and be their protector...especially in a society ready to sue for any miscalculation.
Stay armed...stay alert...stay safe!
Proverbs 27:12 says: “The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.”
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
I'm almost afraid to post this because if I do some one will take it seriously but about 2 years ago a poster named Silverlance posted this on another board. He was dead serious and wanted all shooters to take this oath. The reason(IMO) he went that far off the deep end is because he bought into all that "I'm a sheepdog" crap.
My absolute loathing for that term dates from about the time this post hit the boards.A Shooter's Duty
1. I will carry myself as an honorable individual, a veritable exemplar of honesty, gentility, and kindness as befits the critically reasoning individual that I am, so that others respect me and the culture that I bear.
2. I will always be ready to demonstrate to others the meaning of courage, fearing not to speak when lessen men might remain silent, even if it means that I may draw the baleful attention of the majority.
3. I will strive vigorously to teach others in the ways of firearms, demystifying the stultifying effects of Mainstream Media, and bringing more enlightened souls into our ranks.
4. I will care for my firearms, and regularly practice with them proudly, so that I will be competent in the hour of need.
5. I will be prepared to use my skills and knowledge to defend myself and others, even those who would seek the removal of my rights.
6. I will maintain relations with this our community of shooters, so that we are a unified body, and may respond en masse as a contigent of citizens to any threat.
Sometimes I wish for the "old" days when things were settled by a simple fistfight...and I am only 49.
Kimber UC II
SA XD-45 SC
1948 16g Remington Model 24
Mossberg .410g shottie
When a pal and I took our CCW class, the civil and legal responsibilities and consequences were emphasized with our hypothetical scenarios and annecdotes and stories of our instructors. I ask myself these questions every day since I have been legally carrying a gun inside the door pouch of my car: Are you defending yourself or looking for an excuse to shoot and have fun with your gun? If you are far enough away to aim your gun, you are far enough away to run. It is no longer self-defence if you are shooting across a street. Will you have the mind or the time to rack back a slide and take off a safety?