Legal in Tx. to carry in school parking lot?

This is a discussion on Legal in Tx. to carry in school parking lot? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I've read up on this but am still uncertain, if I'm carrying and pull into the school parking lot to pick up my kid, is ...

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Thread: Legal in Tx. to carry in school parking lot?

  1. #1
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    Legal in Tx. to carry in school parking lot?

    I've read up on this but am still uncertain, if I'm carrying and pull into the school parking lot to pick up my kid, is that considered physical premises and am I in violation?

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    As I understand it, if you have a Texas CHL, you're okay.
    If you have a non-Texas CHL, you're not.
    If you have no CHL at all, and you're carrying in the car under the Motorist Protection Act, you're not okay, either.

    Please chime in if I'm off base...

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    NO...The physical premises is a building, or grounds where a school function is being conducted... Parking lots are not considered part of the premises...You can carry in your vehicle while you are picking up your child from school...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhenriksen View Post
    As I understand it, if you have a Texas CHL, you're okay.
    If you have a non-Texas CHL, you're not.
    If you have no CHL at all, and you're carrying in the car under the Motorist Protection Act, you're not okay, either.

    Please chime in if I'm off base...
    Anyone can carry in their car, if they are dropping off, or picking up their kids...It does not matter if they have a CHL or not, as long as they are legal...The offense of carrying in a prohibited place does not differentiate between CHL holders and non-CHL holders...
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    They wouldn't be in violation of state law, but they would be in violation of the Federal Gun-Free Zone Law unless they had a Texas CHL.

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    Texas CHL Laws Link

    Below is a link to a PDF file of Texas CHL laws from the txdps website. Top of page 39 covers your question, but very vague to the layman.

    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/LS-16.pdf

    As it was explained to our CHL class by our ex LEO instructor, "premises" is the school building itself, not the parking lot. An armed (concealed) CHL holder may legally enter the school parking lot, exit the vehicle, walk up to the school door, & open the door for someone entering or exiting the building (ie. an escort / bodyguard), but may not enter the building themselves. Up to the door, you're OK ... breach the entry way & you've got BIG problems if discovered.

    Also, you CANNOT carry to an official school function conducted anywhere. Examples would be a student group conducting a bake sale fund raiser on the school parking lot, or the band holding practice on the school parking lot. In these instances, the CHL holder cannot enter that parking lot armed while the school event is underway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhenriksen View Post
    As I understand it, if you have a Texas CHL, you're okay.
    If you have a non-Texas CHL, you're not.
    If you have no CHL at all, and you're carrying in the car under the Motorist Protection Act, you're not okay, either.

    Please chime in if I'm off base...
    Where in the law does it differentiate between a CCW permit holder from TX and a 'legally' recognized (by TX) CCW permit holder from another state? Curious?
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Where in the law does it differentiate between a CCW permit holder from TX and a 'legally' recognized (by TX) CCW permit holder from another state? Curious?
    No difference...A CCW holder from another state recognized by TX, is in essence, licensed by the state of TX...
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    There is no difference in Texas state law, but the Federal Gun-Free Zone law specifically states that an individual is exempt from it only if they have a concealed carry license issued by the state where the school is located.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dfxMM View Post
    There is no difference in Texas state law, but the Federal Gun-Free Zone law specifically states that an individual is exempt from it only if they have a concealed carry license issued by the state where the school is located.
    Only a federal LEO can enforce, and arrest, for this offense...This was meant to be an add-on charge, for the aftermath of an incident...Tx LEO's, or any other state, don't have arrest powers for federal offenses...

    If the gun free zone law was technically enforced no one who lived within 1000 ft. radius of any school property could have a firearm in their home...The intent of this statute is to enhance charges and penalties for offenses occurring on school property...
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    (Whether "anyone can carry in their vehicle in a school parking lot in Texas or not, due to the fairly recent extension of the Castle Doctrine" is beyond the scope of this reply)

    A school parking lot is not "JUST" controlled by the Federal gun free zone law, but also by the Texas "Weapon-Free School Zone" and the Texas Education Code, in addition to the other applicable Texas Statutes/Codes. (inter alia, Texas Penal Code - Section 46.11. Penalty If Offense Committed Within Weapon-Free School Zone)

    Note that while "a license holder is not prohibited from having a concealed handgun in his or her vehicle in a school parking lot" (according to the DPS issued booklet, #LS-16, printed August 2008, pge 71);

    Texas Penal Code Places weapons prohibited, 46:03 (a)(1) includes "grounds" as well as "premises" (building as defined by Texas Penal Code 46:035) .... this applies if you exit your vehicle in a school parking lot concealed carrying, unlicensed.

    BUT Texas Penal Code 46:035 Unlawful carrying .... by Licensee does NOT mention "grounds" but mentions "premesis"

    Notice that "exhibit or threatening to exhibit" in a school parking lot is a 3rd degree felony, Texas Education Code, EDC Section 37.125
    (on top of a Penal Code 42.01 Disorderly Conduct if actually displayed in a manner calculated to alarm)





    Read this page on this link for even more clarification: The educator's guide to Texas school law - Google Books
    (Except may not be exactly correct regarding enhancement within 300 feet of a building, see : Penal Code 46.11 (b) This section does not apply to an offense under Section 46.03(a)(1) Texas Penal Code - Section 46.11. Penalty If Offense Committed Within Weapon-Free School Zone - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws

    Anyway, "Premises" in the PENAL Code means a building or portion of a building but does NOT include driveways, sidewalks, parking lots, etc ... see Texas Penal Code 46:035 (f)(3)

    So, personally, I'd keep it concealed and not outside of the vehicle while I drop kids off at school etc..

    ( I'm not a lawyer)

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    As others have already pointed out, Texas law excludes parking lots from the definition of "premises".

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    RPB
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grant48 View Post
    As others have already pointed out, Texas law excludes parking lots from the definition of "premises".
    Yes that's true regarding the Penal Code, but not for the Health and Safety Code ... which is what Section 46:11 of the Texas Penal Code points to for a definition of "premesis," (for the within 300 feet of a school "premesis" for purposes of enhancement ....)

    Texas Penal Code - Section 46.11. Penalty If Offense Committed Within Weapon-Free School Zone - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws.

    46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMITTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE
    SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), the
    punishment prescribed for an offense under this chapter is
    increased to the punishment prescribed for the next highest
    category of offense if it is shown beyond a reasonable doubt on the
    trial of the offense that the actor committed the offense in a place
    that the actor knew was:
    (1) within 300 feet of the premises of a school; or
    (2) on premises where:
    (A) an official school function is taking place;
    or
    (B) an event sponsored or sanctioned by the
    University Interscholastic League is taking place.
    (b) This section does not apply to an offense under Section
    46.03(a)(1).
    (c) In this section:
    (1) "Institution of higher education" and "premises"
    have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety
    Code.


    Texas Health & Safety Code - Section 481.134. Drug-Free Zones - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws
    Texas Health & Safety Code - Section 481.134. Drug-Free Zones

    (4) "Premises" means real property and all buildings
    and appurtenances pertaining to the real property.



    So, still, I'd keep it concealed, inside the vehicle, in the parking lot, when dropping off a child.

    (I'm not a lawyer)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPB View Post
    Yes that's true regarding the Penal Code, but not for the Health and Safety Code ... which is what Section 46:11 of the Texas Penal Code points to for a definition of "premesis," (for the within 300 feet of a school "premesis" for purposes of enhancement ....)

    Texas Penal Code - Section 46.11. Penalty If Offense Committed Within Weapon-Free School Zone - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws.

    46.11. PENALTY IF OFFENSE COMMITTED WITHIN WEAPON-FREE
    SCHOOL ZONE. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), the
    punishment prescribed for an offense under this chapter is
    increased to the punishment prescribed for the next highest
    category of offense if it is shown beyond a reasonable doubt on the
    trial of the offense that the actor committed the offense in a place
    that the actor knew was:
    (1) within 300 feet of the premises of a school; or
    (2) on premises where:
    (A) an official school function is taking place;
    or
    (B) an event sponsored or sanctioned by the
    University Interscholastic League is taking place.
    (b) This section does not apply to an offense under Section
    46.03(a)(1).

    (c) In this section:
    (1) "Institution of higher education" and "[U][B]premises"
    have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety
    Code.
    Texas Health & Safety Code - Section 481.134. Drug-Free Zones - Texas Attorney Resources - Texas Laws
    Texas Health & Safety Code - Section 481.134. Drug-Free Zones

    (4) "Premises" means real property and all buildings
    and appurtenances pertaining to the real property.


    So, still, I'd keep it concealed, inside the vehicle, in the parking lot, when dropping off a child.

    (I'm not a lawyer)
    The Bold and Italic section I marked, in 46.11, tells you that 46.11 does not apply to 46.03(a)(1)...which is the statute that covers places where weapons are prohibited...

    In 46.03, the 'grounds' you are referring to, is not just grounds....It is 'grounds or building where a school function is taking place'...example, football practice on the football field, is a sponsored event...no carry... Inside any building, no carry...

    Sunday afternoon, you go to jog/walk the track around football field, no event going on, If you're a CHL holder you're OK...

    Whether you are a CHL holder, or not.... the best approach to take is to leave your concealed weapon in your car, if you exit your vehicle on school property...
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

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    RPB
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    Quote Originally Posted by TX-JB View Post
    The Bold and Italic section I marked, in 46.11, tells you that 46.11 does not apply to 46.03(a)(1)...which is the statute that covers places where weapons are prohibited...

    In 46.03, the 'grounds' you are referring to, is not just grounds....It is 'grounds or building where a school function is taking place'...example, football practice on the football field, is a sponsored event...no carry... Inside any building, no carry...

    Sunday afternoon, you go to jog/walk the track around football field, no event going on, If you're a CHL holder you're OK...

    Whether you are a CHL holder, or not.... the best approach to take is to leave your concealed weapon in your car, if you exit your vehicle on school property...
    I agree, I think I was trying to make a point that "exhibit or threatening to exhibit" in a school parking lot is a 3rd degree felony, Texas Education Code, EDC Section 37.125 is not "does not apply to 46.03(a)(1)" to which it does not apply... it's an offense under a different law than ...46.03(a)(1)"


    I mean what I intended to point out, is that it is not only the Penal Code and Federal Gun Free zone laws which regulate us in that situation, and that the definition of Premises which applies to Penal Code 46.03(a)(1)" is not the same definition of Prmises assigned by Section 481.134, Health and Safety Code, to which 46.11 might apply ... because, a violation of Texas Education Code, EDC Section 37.125 is something other than46.03(a)(1), to which it does "not apply"

    I mean .... 46.11. might could be used to enhance a conviction under Texas Education Code, EDC Section 37.125 , even though 46.11. "does not apply to Penal Code 46.03(a)(1)" and could not be used to enhance a conviction under that. And, if convicted under Texas Education Code, EDC Section 37.125 , then when the penalty phase of a bifurcated trail begins, for enhancement purposes only, the definition then changes to our detriment. In my view, it's just a glitch I'd hope could be cleared up in the next legislative session, if they's use the same definition of premises both times, but they's still be able to use enhancement of a penalty for violations of anything but Penal Code 46.03(a)(1).


    I'm no lawyer

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