# of rounds before you "trust your gun"
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November 15th, 2009 02:27 PM
# of rounds before you "trust your gun"
How many rounds do you feel it is necessary to put through your handgun before you "trust" it as a weapon to protect you and your loved ones?
I am aiming this at the auto crowd although I feel it is just as relevant to wheel guns.
I did NOT put this in the gun section because I do not feel this is as technical a matter as it is a matter of practice/procedure in calling a new or new to you weapon to carry or bedside duty.
Pray for our nations leaders!
November 15th, 2009 02:27 PM
November 15th, 2009 02:44 PM
I hate to say it but my Glock 27 was, and has been flawless from the first shot. hundreds and hundreds of rounds later it still runs like a Swiss watch. So if it's a Glock I'd say 0-50 rounds. My Walther PPS's have perfect too so 0-50.
Come to think of it the only pistol that was ever an abysmal failure in my view was my S&W M&P .40c which never fired more than 3 rounds without a malfunction of some sort.
November 15th, 2009 02:51 PM
I feel I need to balance this view with some of my own testimonial.
Originally Posted by Siafu
Glock 36- 2 failures in the first 12 rounds
Between 5 M&P weapons- 0 failures in 10,000+ rounds
Kahr P45- 0 failures (and this a weapon that IMO MUST be broken in and you should expect failures in the first # of rounds).
Are Glocks all in all reliable...YES. I am not trying to start a brand war. The original question still stands.
Let me put it another way...would you put your life on the reputation of a manufacturer or particular weapon?
Pray for our nations leaders!
November 15th, 2009 02:56 PM
Personally it depends alot on my previous exposure to the brand/model. For SD ammo I use Federal HST, Winchester Ranger and Remington Golden Sabre rounds. I do have some Hydra-Shock in inventory but have been slowly shooting it up on the range.
What I refer to as my "top shelf" guns; my H&K's and Sigs (except for my P-6) after 200 rounds of range ammo and 50 rounds of SD ammo I was GTG with them. These models are the USPc .40, USPc .45 and Sig Sauer P220R, 232 and 229 (non railed). I did several types of SD ammo through the P232 (Corbon DPX, Hornaday Critical Defense, Winchester Silver Tip and Federal Hydra-Shock) through it but ultimately decided on the Hornaday round. I have never used my P6 as a carry piece because it will not effectively feed SD ammo. I am going to have my barrell shipped to Todd at Customized Creationz though to fix that problem.
My 3" 1911's (Springfield Micro Compact and Kimber Eclipse ULE II) I never trusted with SD ammo but cycled several hundred rounds of FMJ ammo through the SA and it had to go back to Geneseo, IL for some work (extractor tuning). I did carry the SA with FMJ ammo for a time. I never carried the Kimber because I though it looked "too pretty" to employ as a carry gun. It's a safe queen as there were only 800 of them made.
My Kimber Pro Carry II - required a "break-in" period per Kimber. I had several hundred rounds through it with lots of FTF problems. They weren't a result of limp wristing, it ended up being a problem with the OEM recoil spring being too light. Once I bought the "correct" spring from Wolff the gun ran almost like a Timex watch. Don't carry it because personally I don't trust it. It's a range gun. I have not tried to run SD through it since I changed out the spring.
My Taurus PT-140 SS - About 200 rounds of range ammo and 50 rounds of SD ammo. Carried the gun for a very long time and shot it regularly but after it broke a trigger pin at the range and it was repaired I have not carried it since. I no longer trust that gun.
My Glock G23 I carried from day one with JHP ammo. I have had it on the range several times and trained with it at 2 CQB/tactical handgun sessions with no issues. I admit I was foolish to not run the gun prior to carrying it but did have it on the range less than 24 hours after purchasing. After one range trip of shooting both FMJ and SD ammo I was comfortable with it.
My current carry gun is the G23; I have stated in other posts that I only have 2 other pistols close by and they are my P220 (which I consider the best combat pistol I own) and my P232 (which fits perfectly in a smart carry while wearing sweats around the house.
Ten different people are going to tell you 10 different things, this is just my personal opinion and as always, YMMV.
"In a crisis, you will not rise to the occasion, but you will default to the level of your training."
November 15th, 2009 02:57 PM
I trust no "bottomfeeder" until I've put 500 rounds of "range" ammo through it and 200 rounds of "carry" ammo down the pipe. Revolvers, I go with at least 100 rounds of "carry" ammo.
The "break in" period is a good time to discover malfunctions and to let the parts "mate" to each other, much like breaking in a new car. The time spent shooting the new gun also helps you to get familiar with the gun and should increase your accuracy with that gun as well. This is why I favor one "primary" gun for a period of time. After a year or two I may switch platforms, but do the "break in" procedure all over again to refamiliarize myself with the new platform.
November 15th, 2009 03:00 PM
Not trying to see what brand is best. But i've seen glocks jam, I have a S&W M&P 40 and have 900+ rounds through it just fine. Check the ammo you put through it. Put crap in get crap out. Don't buy cheap ammo!
November 15th, 2009 03:18 PM
Lately it has depended on ammo availability. I have been using Corbon DPX in all my autos, and have 50 rounds of Federal HST all in .40 s&w. I will run at least 200 hundred rounds of practice ammo through them annd a minimum of 50 rounds SD ammo, (only ran 20 rounds of the corbon dpx through the SIG P239 I just bought) before I carry it.
November 15th, 2009 03:51 PM
200 rounds of target ammo and at a MINIMUM 50 rounds of carry, usually though its more like 100 rounds of carry before I will "Trust" a carry piece. Im proud to say that of all the carry guns Ive "broken in" (for myself or for my family, NOT friends...) only ONE gave me a head ache and it was a Bersa .380, 7 FTE in the first 40 rounds, after that it hasnt so much as hiccuped. (I ran over 300 rounds of target and 150 of carry in it soley because of the 7 FTEs I had. Just to be sure that it remedied itself)
BETTER TO BE TRIED BY 12 THAN CARRIED BY 6
Hesitation kills faster than a bullet.
If your head is up your *$$ you are unaware of danger. You are in the perfect position to kiss it goodbye.
Open Carry LAW for Pennsylvania
November 15th, 2009 03:54 PM
I would have to say that i would not have bought it if I didn't think it was gonna go bang every time....... however, it does take a few rounds to get everything seated and mated..... I can do that with toothpaste before even firing it......
BUT, then it also depends on ammo......and you HAVE to put all kinds of ammo thought the weapon. You want to know when and if it will fail, then try to correct the problem.....
I can say this......my AR did not like Coyote ammo with the standard A2 stock, and didn’t like ANY ammo when I changed to a collapsible stock. (the carrier would not cycle completely, and would not eject the round) So what I found was, after I replaced the front site (at the same time as the stock), the gas block did not seal completely. I fixed that and made it function properly, but it would still not push the bolt back and lock it on the last round. I had to trim off the buffer spring ½ coil at a time until it functioned properly. Now it will shoot ANY round I put in it, and function properly.
Bottom line is….. in a SHTF (stuff hits the fan… ) you may not have a choice in ammo….. IF you had to pick up someone else’s ammo and load it, will your weapon shoot it?
If it won’t shoot ANYTHING you put in it, is it really the reliable weapon you have deemed it to be?? Just MY thoughts, and for sure my own opinion…….. Your mileage may vary greatly…..
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Ever wonder why massacres never happen at a gun range??
You might find me dead in a ditch one day, but I'll be in a pile of brass.
- Stolen from Zebra64
November 15th, 2009 04:29 PM
Like any piece of quality machinery, all guns need a break-in period to get the parts working smoothly and in harmony. I've had pistols that have never jammed (notably my CZ-75), and some .22's that clog up quite often.
How many rounds before I would trust my life to a piece of machinery? The number does not exist. But I feel more comfortable each time I put a hundred or so through.
If you need an answer to your question though, 200-500 flawless before I'm comfortable carrying it for protection.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
-- Benjamin Franklin
November 15th, 2009 04:31 PM
It depends on the gun actually,If I shoot 200 rounds without a single hiccup including 50 rounds of carry ammo,then it's good to go.Since the initial breakin and the fact I shoot at least 200 rounds weekly,all my guns have had several thousand rounds thru them
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
November 15th, 2009 04:39 PM
I'm in the ~1000rd camp.
For a defensive carry gun, it's that important to me. I don't care if a brand name has a reputation for being more reliable than most, enough to rely on that blindly as to the reliability of a specific example of that make/model. It's not known until it's known, and you cannot know until you test it yourself. That means: rounds, various types, possible massaging by a gunsmith. Once it proves itself, then you know. Not before then, which is only a guess (educated or not).
So. I've had three primaries, so far, including one revolver. With the revolver, I did not go more than ~50rds of initial shooting before putting it into service, since most of the issues that pistols have simply don't exist on a well-made revolver. With the other two primaries, I did the 1000rd dance, seeking to find the perfect make/model of ammunition that my specific gun liked best.
With one gun, it took several thousand rounds before things worked flawlessly on anything. With another, it took 500rds to find two perfect cartridges. In each case, I took the round count to 1000rds before I was comfortable. At which point, I knew exactly how the given ammo behaved in that gun, how clean/oiled it liked to be, the specific cartridge OAL, the tightness of crimp that my gun's ramp/throat seemed to tolerate best, etc. Minor variations from one make of cartridge to another do, in my experience, tend to make a big difference in some guns. And until you test it in your specific gun, you won't know if tolerances got stacked on your gun or not.
I had one pistol that kept getting better and better, such that after 20Krds or so it began running flawlessly with everything. The last 10Krds were without issue of any kind. It seemed to like the Remington Golden Saber JHP 124gr 9mm rounds best, but it worked with everything. This was a Browning BDM semi-auto, if anyone remembers it. IMO, one of the best carry guns of its type, though maligned for its "backwards" safety feature.
YMMV, depending on your gun and preferences.
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the number of victims?
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November 15th, 2009 05:01 PM
200 rounds perfectly makes me feel secure.
November 15th, 2009 05:10 PM
You said it better than I could concerning semi's. With my old S&W revolvers 50 rounds and I'm good!
Originally Posted by BikerRN
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November 15th, 2009 05:16 PM
My M&P 9c shot great from the first round through it. I have since shot many hundreds of rounds, with only 2 failures.
It eats anything I put in it. I reload and was given a few thousand pieces of assorted range brass. I sort brass by headstamp on the commercial ammo I bought when I pick it up after shooting, but haven't reloaded any of that yet because of the reliability of the other stuff, which I don't sort.
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