Another irresponsible gun owner - Page 3

Another irresponsible gun owner

This is a discussion on Another irresponsible gun owner within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by razor02097 If someone in the house found my safe unlocked due to the time I forgot it are you saying I should ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array Beretta8045's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    If someone in the house found my safe unlocked due to the time I forgot it are you saying I should be prosecuted and tried as a criminal?
    I think that's what some people are trying to say, which is dangerous thinking IMO.
    Proud NRA & MCRGO Member

    "The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight....I'd choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an atomic bomb instead."


  2. #32
    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post
    If they'd wandered into the garage, and one kid used a drill or saw on the other, would the adult be responsible? Why should guns be any different?
    Yea the adult probably would be held responsible....that's how things work.
    And yes.....leaving a loaded firearm unsecured in a house where kids hang out is just stupid and can't really be compared to a baseball bat or drill motor. Lets face it, guns on TV, in the movies and in video games have been glamorized to the point where any kid who hasn't been exposed to a "real" gun in "real" life could easily succumb to the wow factor if he came across one at a neighbor's house.

    Geez.....don't you guys remember why you watched all of those black and white westerns on TV when you were a kid.........it was to see the bad guys get blasted by the good guys!

  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    awful lot of speculation and "i would assume" going on here...

    its not that many of us agree with the law...its that the law exists...in many cases these laws exist to protect people...

    just curious...how would you feel if your neighbor forgot to lock his safe and a toddler wandered in and shot himself with a loaded pistol that looked like something to play with...lets take it to that extreme for a moment just to put it into perspective...is the gun owner responsible for keeping his firearm in a safe place to prevent harm to others?...

    yeah...the teen should have known better...yeah he is responsible for his actions...yeah...its tragic...

    yeah...there is a law that states the gun owner is responsible for the security of his firearms and keeping them out of the reach of children...

    yeah...we know nothing like this could ever happen to you...and yeah...if you left your safe unlocked and a kid took a gun out and shot someone the article would read..."the sheriff is looking into whether or not the gun owner will be held legally liable"....

    its not really that hard to wrap you mind around...

    you want examples of bad stuff?...a couple places a toddler on a motorcycle parked outside of a business because it seems cute...its not their motorcycle...the toddler falls off the motorcycle and is permanently injured...the couple sues the motorcycle owner...who was not even present when the injury occured and did not give the parents permission to place their child on the motorcycle...the judge determines that the motorcycle is an attractive nuisance and allows the suit...

    no...it isnt right...and there isnt a thing in the world any normal human being would have done to prevent someone from putting their child on the seat of the motorcycle...but there are laws that tell us we must secure out guns and keep them from children...and if we dont do that and something bad happens...well...we know how the article will read...dont we?

  4. #34
    Member Array Beretta8045's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't secure your guns--I secure mine when not on me, and I think most of us do.

    I think where we disagree is that I should be held criminally responsible for someone else's actions. I didn't make the choice to pick up the gun, point it at someone, and pull the trigger.

    Playing devil's advocate, did your choice to not secure the gun contribute? Yes, but does it rise to a criminal level? I don't think it should.
    Proud NRA & MCRGO Member

    "The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight....I'd choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an atomic bomb instead."

  5. #35
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta8045 View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing that you shouldn't secure your guns--I secure mine when not on me, and I think most of us do.

    I think where we disagree is that I should be held criminally responsible for someone else's actions. I didn't make the choice to pick up the gun, point it at someone, and pull the trigger.

    Playing devil's advocate, did your choice to not secure the gun contribute? Yes, but does it rise to a criminal level? I don't think it should.
    you didnt make the choice...you facilitated it...

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hogdaddy View Post
    NO not if my house is locked & a kid did a B&E and got a hold of
    my gun & shot somebody Kid is at fault 100%, MY house was locked
    so my guns were secure
    So a Neighbor is at FAULT
    No way No how PS a 15 Y/O should be tried as a adult SO WE WILL AGREE TO DISAGREE

    H/D
    Good luck with this theory in my state. It might fly, but then again ...
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #37
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    If my firearm isn't on me or being cleaned/repaired by me its locked up. But I don't lock it up to prevent its use I lock it up to prevent its theft.

    I have accidently left my safe unlocked before. WE ALL DO granted the front door is locked but that is a different habit. If someone in the house found my safe unlocked due to the time I forgot it are you saying I should be prosecuted and tried as a criminal? I don't let people know where I keep my guns and the article didn't specify but I would imagine that the stepbrother hid the revolver. It makes me wonder if I should put a lock on the room door that locks automatically that my gun safe is in and keep it locked incase I forget in the future. Cause heaven forbid a family member ransacks that room, finds one of my firearms and kills someone with it.
    In Connecticut, not necessarily should, but could, and probably would, is a very real possibility.

    This is why, in my house, there is no unsecured ammo, as well. If it's not on my person, it's locked away.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  8. #38
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    If my firearm isn't on me or being cleaned/repaired by me its locked up. But I don't lock it up to prevent its use I lock it up to prevent its theft.

    I have accidently left my safe unlocked before. WE ALL DO granted the front door is locked but that is a different habit. If someone in the house found my safe unlocked due to the time I forgot it are you saying I should be prosecuted and tried as a criminal? I don't let people know where I keep my guns and the article didn't specify but I would imagine that the stepbrother hid the revolver. It makes me wonder if I should put a lock on the room door that locks automatically that my gun safe is in and keep it locked incase I forget in the future. Cause heaven forbid a family member ransacks that room, finds one of my firearms and kills someone with it.
    well in that case i suppose "i forgot it was loaded" or "i thought the safety was on" would get you out of trouble too...

    how far do you want to take it?...i guess if its by mistake the law shouldnt count..."sorry officer, i didnt realize i had that much to drink"...good defense....

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    I bought my first gun, a Rem 510, when I was 10. I already knew right from wrong, and without any instruction most safety rules.
    As far as I am concerned the gun owner has some degree of responsibility, but it is the 15 year old who did the shooting, and he knew better.
    Do to him what would be done to an adult.

    When my children were young I did not have a safe, and my handgun was by my bed. They never touched it, and I am thankful that there was never a problem. I would be more careful now, and especially since the way to solve problems, according to TV, etc is to blow the other person away.

    While gun owners should be cautious about access to their guns I don't blame the adult when a 15 year old gets a gun and shoots someone.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    I bought my first gun, a Rem 510, when I was 10. I already knew right from wrong, and without any instruction most safety rules.
    As far as I am concerned the gun owner has some degree of responsibility, but it is the 15 year old who did the shooting, and he knew better.
    Do to him what would be done to an adult.
    When my children were young I did not have a safe, and my handgun was by my bed. They never touched it, and I am thankful that there was never a problem. I would be more careful now, and especially since the way to solve problems, according to TV, etc is to blow the other person away.
    While gun owners should be cautious about access to their guns I don't blame the adult when a 15 year old gets a gun and shoots someone.
    Regards,
    Jerry
    Agree 100%^^ I grew up around guns new whento touch & when not to.But in FLORIDA My house is locked up & by chance a 15 Y/O
    by found were the few I keep out after HE BROKE IN my house &
    goes & shoots somebody HE IS AY FAULT not me
    A Native Floridian = RARE


    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
    H/D

  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    well in that case i suppose "i forgot it was loaded" or "i thought the safety was on" would get you out of trouble too...

    how far do you want to take it?...i guess if its by mistake the law shouldnt count..."sorry officer, i didnt realize i had that much to drink"...good defense....

    Apples to oranges my friend. My act was to forget to activate the lock on my safe not shooting someone or drinking excessively. Both are a direct act in violation of the law. There is no law saying you can't leave a safe unsecured.

    It would be more like leaving a car unlocked. So long as you had the key the insurance couldn't prove you didn't lock it. I kinda answered my own question.

    If you want to take it this far..... the guy had a hiding spot for his revolver. Would it have been better in a safe locked up? Yes... did he have any kind of lock on the gun activated? The article failed to specify that part, when it said "failed to lock his .38 up" could mean he didn't have it in a locked location. It didn't say it wasn't secured. Did it have a lock on the gun? Probably not but it just goes to show how splitting hairs can be annoying.

    The law doesn't require you to lock your gun in a safe only to use the trigger or action lock. I could argue that if a person used a BETTER lock that didn't come with the gun that it would be a liability cause he didn't use a lock that came with that gun.

    We are all in agreement that the teen should get whats coming to him. What is in disagreement is why the revolver owner would be held liable for having a firearm hidden on his property inside his house and the teen without permission commited a crime with it. Yes it is yet to be determined whether or not he is going to be charged.

    Its not the "oh it won't happen to me" Its more a wake up call for us to "oh this COULD happen to me!"

    I'm gonna go chain a pit bull to my safe in case I forget to lock it again
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crf3973 View Post
    even though the 15 year old is of age to make the decision to shoot… the responsibility still falls majorly on the step brother who left his gun unlocked and unattended.
    A fifteen year old takes a gun, points it at his friend's head, and pulls the trigger. I just don't understand this mentality that anyone else is to blame. People look at 15 year young adults the same way they do mature adults. They see them all the same way as Dianne Sawyer sees toddlers.

    If the kid were four, then sure, he shouldn't have had access to a loaded gun. At some point though, how about holding people accountable to exercise some common sense and a little bit of personal responsibility?

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackZ51Vett View Post
    Yea well unfortunately, most states dont have laws on car keys, baseball bats, and kitchen knives, but they do have laws on guns.......
    From what I can tell, there is no child access prevention law in Oregon. For that, and other reasons, the Brady Campaign gives Oregon an F for gun control laws. Seems like there are a lot of people here, as usual, that support the Brady Campaign's rationale for seeking "reasonable gun control" in every state in the nation.

    If you like the child access prevention law for Oregon, surely you'll support the Brady Campaign generously in it's efforts to pass these other gun controls in Oregon. Oregon gets an F on gun control?

  14. #44
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    nobody is supporting a law...we are merely trying to make people aware that is the law exists you are subject to it...

    blurting out "that isnt acceptable" doesnt make you immune to the law...assuming the guy "hid" his gun doesnt make him immune to the law either...if the law is in effect...the article will read..."the sheriff is in the process of determining wether the gun owner will be held legally liable"...and it seems in this case even though you so righteously pointed out the law is not in effect the article still reads the same...

    responsibility is responsibility...you can whine all you want in here...it isnt going to change the world as it stands...if you want to change something spend this kind of time making your voice heard at the capitol....

  15. #45
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    Unfortunately most states don't have laws on kitchen knives, etc!!!

    UNFORTUNATELY??? Exactly how many things do you want Big Brother to regulate? Perhaps Obama should begin regulation of this site! How would that be? Then he could launch another "snitch" @ White House.com so his minions can alert the left to those dangerous proponents of the 2nd amendment. Would that be OK? Sometimes very bad things happen. Only recently has it become mandatory that blame be assigned in each and every case. A baseball bat manufacturer was recently successfully sued for 850,000 by the family of a youngster accidentally killed after being struck in the head by a batted ball. Is that OK with you? Should congress get involved and mandate SOFTER BATS? Football helmets for baseball players? Ban baseball for anyone under....what, 21? Perhaps you should THINK before asking for government intervention. We have precious few rights remaining. And leftists don't need more power or more ideas for regulation.

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