Another irresponsible gun owner - Page 4

Another irresponsible gun owner

This is a discussion on Another irresponsible gun owner within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by bladenbullet nobody is supporting a law...we are merely trying to make people aware that is the law exists you are subject to ...

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Thread: Another irresponsible gun owner

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    nobody is supporting a law...we are merely trying to make people aware that is the law exists you are subject to it...
    There does not appear to be any law in Oregon that would hold the owner of this handgun in any way responsible for what this fifteen year old young man did with it.


  2. #47
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    responsibility is responsibility. the law says secure your firearms and keep them out of childrens reach. that obviously wasnt the case here and the owner will probably be held responsible for that.
    The law in Oregon does not say that. There is no law in Oregon that mandates citizens secure firearms from children. What they have instead of that law is called freedom.

  3. #48
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    sorry...silly me...i guess what we have here is a difference of opinion regarding reality and fantasy...

    reality is if you choose to own firearms you are subject to a lot of laws, legalities and scrutiny if something goes wrong....even if you live in a "free" state...live with it and i hope you never have to experience it...regardless of what you think i mean...

    fantasy is...making excuses because you dont think its right...and at the same time believing anyone who cautions you about it is batting for the other team...along with thinking if it happens to you youll be immune to it because it just isnt right...

    you win...

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    reality is if you choose to own firearms you are subject to a lot of laws,
    There is no law in Oregon that obligates citizens to secure loaded firearms from children of any age. What they have instead are laws that hold irresponsible 15 year old young men accountable for their own actions as adults. If you want to call that fantasy, please just go ahead and cite the specific statute that you've been talking about throughout this thread, and I'll admit you win.

    In Oregon, it is the sole responsibility of a 15 year old young man to not pick up a loaded handgun (ie any firearm), point it at his friend's forehead, and pull the trigger. In Oregon, as it should be in every state, no one else is held responsible.

  5. #50
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    I am everyday astounded by the number of posters in these forums who believe that they have the right to disobey the law if they didn't personally help make that law. There are many, many laws on the books that I think are ridiculous and that infringe on my liberty and nobody asked me before they passed them. However, they are the laws and, as a member of this society, I am bound to follow them.
    I am sure the average gang-banger out there thinks the laws are stupid because they say he can't take what he wants. There is a very thin line between him and the gun owner that believes that the Second amendment says he can do whatever he wants. A lawbreaker is a lawbreaker.

    My wife is just not a killer, and I am afraid that she would just let the BG take the gun away and use it on her. (This is due to religious and moral convictions, not training.) If the law says I have to take responsibility for the availability of my weapon, it will be available only to me. Neither my HCP or the Second Amendment recinded the laws of the state.

    The answer is to actively try to get the laws changed to be more in line with the needs of self defense, not to defy the laws in place. By disobeying the laws we are proving one of the arguments of the anti-gun people: that we are not good guys but lawbreakers and a threat to innocent citizens.

    As to children and guns, I have taught my sons and my grandsons safety and how to shoot, but I still know there is a reason for 18 being the age for them to carry guns alone. That reason is based on psychology and experience that children and young people do not think like adults, regardless of training of training or upbringing. My grandchildren do not handle any of my firearms without me alongside to supervise them. 18 years of High School teaching has given me some experience in the truth of this. How a child behaves in front of their parents may bear no relationship to how they act with other children. I wish I had a dollar for every parent who had to come in after their child had done something terribly bad at school. The parents always insist that the teacher and principal are lying because "their child just couldn't do that." They can and it is always a threat that they will.

    I wholeheartedly believe we need to teach firearms safety and teach them how to shoot, but we need to monitor them physically until they are of age to act on their own, by law.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    I am everyday astounded by the number of posters in these forums who believe that they have the right to disobey the law if they didn't personally help make that law. There are many, many laws on the books that I think are ridiculous and that infringe on my liberty and nobody asked me before they passed them. However, they are the laws and, as a member of this society, I am bound to follow them.
    I don't know how many ways I can say this. There is no law in Oregon that makes it specifically illegal to leave loaded firearms accessible to children of any age. If I'm mistaken about that, let's have someone cite the specific statute that was disobeyed by the firearm owner. Apparently the DA can't find a statute either, hence, only the 15 year old young man has been charged with violating the law.

  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    There is no law in Oregon that obligates citizens to secure loaded firearms from children of any age. What they have instead are laws that hold irresponsible 15 year old young men accountable for their own actions as adults. If you want to call that fantasy, please just go ahead and cite the specific statute that you've been talking about throughout this thread, and I'll admit you win.

    In Oregon, it is the sole responsibility of a 15 year old young man to not pick up a loaded handgun (ie any firearm), point it at his friend's forehead, and pull the trigger. In Oregon, as it should be in every state, no one else is held responsible.
    great job taking only part of my quote and using out of context...even better example of why gun owners have to put up with the things they have to put up with...you cant manipulate the world to see things your way when you are a minority...you may be too white to understand that (i apologize if the example offends someone but take a moment to reflect on it)...reality is what reality is...i digress to the fact there is no law in the state where the incident took place...that doesnt change responsibility...until we realize that and take it upon ourselves we are destined to be treated exactly as we are....(take a second and relate that to the example...figure it out)...

    sorry...i'm just surprized that that is the best you can come up with...

    well said wjh...

  8. #53
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you may be too white to understand that
    Right. That must be it. I'm not applying the right racial filter to your logic. I guess we're done here.

  9. #54
    Member Array Beretta8045's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladenbullet View Post
    you may be too white to understand that (i apologize if the example offends someone but take a moment to reflect on it)
    What is that supposed to mean?
    Proud NRA & MCRGO Member

    "The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight....I'd choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an atomic bomb instead."

  10. #55
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta8045 View Post
    What is that supposed to mean?
    in the first example:

    somebody who is white may have a hard time understanding what minorities have had to overcome to get to where they are today...i am not legitimizing their constant claim to discrimination...i am just bringing to light that there is still a great deal of discrimination...

    in the second:

    the problem is those discriminated against sometimes use it in an attempt to condone criminal behavior less than acceptable behavior just beacause they want people to believe they dont have a choice due to the discrimination theyve had to put up with..

    therefore:

    when in reality they create more of their own problems by continuing behavior that allows others to keep them down because they cannot behave acceptable in the company of the people they want to accept them...

    in this case the gun owners are the ones who are discriminated against...it doesnt have to be racial...it is just the best example to use because everyone is familiar with it...

    boiling it down to a sarcastic remark regarding not applying the right racial filter to my remark when my remark was actually disected and used out of context was an expected reaction...

    have fun with it...

    in short & blunt...blacks were discriminated against heavily in this country for many years...it left some very deep scars...many have been able to rise to the top (quite literally if youre paying attention) and get past the discrimination by determination and proving they(sorry the previous example ay not fit here) can apply themselves and be very successful...some are not so fortunate...just as some of any race, religion, enter anything here...and some commit crimes and use the past discrimination as an excuse..as though they had no choice...

    lets stop making excuses...

  11. #56
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    but before you remind me again...i understand there is no law stating guns have to be kept from minors if the information related in this thread is true...just wanted to get it out of the way...cause i know its coming again...

    you could move there and pass em out on halloween....

  12. #57
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    "In Oregon, it is the sole responsibility of a 15 year old young man to not pick up a loaded handgun (ie any firearm), point it at his friend's forehead, and pull the trigger. In Oregon, as it should be in every state, no one else is held responsible."

    My post was not in reference to this specific action nor its legality in Oregon. The post was to the general consensus from several posters that this type of attitude needs to be condoned everywhere. the state of Tennessee, and many other states, have several times reviewed and reaffirmed their belief that an adult is responsible for his/her weapons and must control them in the presence of minors. My reply was to those posters. Follow the law in your own state. I probably should have started this as a new topic and left out the reference to Oregon. My apologies for any confusion.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  13. #58
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    My post was not in reference to this specific action nor its legality in Oregon. The post was to the general consensus from several posters that this type of attitude needs to be condoned everywhere. the state of Tennessee, and many other states, have several times reviewed and reaffirmed their belief that an adult is responsible for his/her weapons and must control them in the presence of minors. My reply was to those posters. Follow the law in your own state. I probably should have started this as a new topic and left out the reference to Oregon. My apologies for any confusion.
    What has struck me about this story and the discussion is that I think many gun owners and society in general have acquiesced to a Brady Campaign gun control mentality that didn't exist like just fifteen years ago. We are talking about a 15 year old young man here who picked up a loaded gun, pointed it at his friends face, and pulled the trigger. This isn't a four year old or ten year old child. We're talking about a fifteen year old young man.

    Just like the Brady Campaign would, we have several posters trying to assign a criminal responsibility to the gun owner even when no such criminal law exists in that state. Here on a forum that exists to advocate gun rights, we have posters essentially advocating a Brady Campaign position that Oregon should pass child access prevention laws because if it's not illegal now, it should be.

  14. #59
    Member Array Beretta8045's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dldeuce View Post
    What has struck me about this story and the discussion is that I think many gun owners and society in general have acquiesced to a Brady Campaign gun control mentality that didn't exist like just fifteen years ago. We are talking about a 15 year old young man here who picked up a loaded gun, pointed it at his friends face, and pulled the trigger. This isn't a four year old or ten year old child. We're talking about a fifteen year old young man.

    Just like the Brady Campaign would, we have several posters trying to assign a criminal responsibility to the gun owner even when no such criminal law exists in that state. Here on a forum that exists to advocate gun rights, we have posters essentially advocating a Brady Campaign position that Oregon should pass child access prevention laws because if it's not illegal now, it should be.
    Proud NRA & MCRGO Member

    "The handgun would not be my choice of weapon if I knew I was going to a fight....I'd choose a rifle, a shotgun, an RPG or an atomic bomb instead."

  15. #60
    Senior Member Array dldeuce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    As to children and guns, I have taught my sons and my grandsons safety and how to shoot, but I still know there is a reason for 18 being the age for them to carry guns alone. That reason is based on psychology and experience that children and young people do not think like adults, regardless of training of training or upbringing.
    I disagree. The reason is based upon a successful political campaign to eliminate firearms from our society altogether. In Texas, there was no reason minors couldn't be allowed to possess guns alone until 1995, when apparently as a concession to passing CHL laws, the Brady Campaign was successful in getting a child access protection law passed. I think these laws are having the intended and well planned chilling effect on owning and possessing firearms. I think what we're seeing now is a generational effect of incremental gun control when apparent gun owners are so willing to support gun control laws.

    When I was 12, I had my own .22 rifle and .20 gauge shotgun. I hunted unsupervised with my brother and cousins, with my grandfather's 870 .12 gauge shotgun. I had my own deer rifle, and it wasn't uncommon to be left alone when deer hunting with my father. I had constant and ready access to loaded and unloaded firearms and ammunition for as long as I can remember. This was common and normal even growing up in the suburbs of Houston. It wasn't illegal or immoral until the Brady Campaign sought to end our rights to own firearms altogether.

    My grandchildren do not handle any of my firearms without me alongside to supervise them. 18 years of High School teaching has given me some experience in the truth of this. How a child behaves in front of their parents may bear no relationship to how they act with other children. I wish I had a dollar for every parent who had to come in after their child had done something terribly bad at school. The parents always insist that the teacher and principal are lying because "their child just couldn't do that." They can and it is always a threat that they will.
    At what magical age does an "appropriate" amount of maturity and responsibility settle into a young man that society can suddenly trust him with a firearm? That's an important question. When you pick an age that you can support restricting the rights of all citizens in society, you support the Brady Campaign in its efforts to answer the question, for everyone, as never.

    I wholeheartedly believe we need to teach firearms safety and teach them how to shoot, but we need to monitor them physically until they are of age to act on their own, by law.
    In other words, you support the Brady Campaign in passing gun control laws in Oregon.

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