Law vs Common Sense

Law vs Common Sense

This is a discussion on Law vs Common Sense within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; AP 5:39 a.m. CT, Sun., Nov . 22, 2009 "HILLSBORO, Ore. - A gunman fatally wounded a passenger in another vehicle at an Oregon intersection ...

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Thread: Law vs Common Sense

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Law vs Common Sense

    AP 5:39 a.m. CT, Sun., Nov . 22, 2009
    "HILLSBORO, Ore. - A gunman fatally wounded a passenger in another vehicle at an Oregon intersection Saturday, setting off a police chase that ended when the suspect crashed and was killed by officers, authorities said.
    The passenger, 56-year-old Danny K. Le Gore of Hillsboro, was rushed to a local hospital where he died. Police did not immediately identify the gunman.
    Police initially called the violence a road rage shooting that followed a traffic altercation, but later they backed away from that report.
    Hillsboro Lt. Henry Reimann said it still wasn't clear what happened at the intersection, and information from witnesses hadn't clarified the incident.
    Apparently a ‘random act of extreme violence’
    But he said it appeared that the gunman opened fire on the Le Gore vehicle as it was moving, pumping at least six rounds from a handgun into it.
    "It appears that this victim had no connection to the suspect in this case, and it appears to be a random act of extreme violence," the police said in a statement.
    Officers chased the gunman west to neighboring Cornelius and said he fired back at them both before and after he crashed at a downtown intersection.
    A Cornelius resident, Robert Layton, told The Oregonian newspaper the driver was barefoot and wearing camouflage pants. Layton said the man ran less than 100 feet, firing at officers, before he was hit by their return fire.
    Police said no officers were hit."

    (Sarcasm follows:)

    I don't see why the police got involved. Oregon does not have a specific law prohibiting shooting people at random at intersections! Obviously violating this guy's second amendment rights!

    (End of sarcasm.)

    Before somebody screams that this was an individual incident, all shootings are individual incidents. My point here is not that Oregon law caused this to happen because it didn't have anything to do with it. This was obviously a nut case. However, the law is not the only restriction to the use of a gun. There is probably no law on the books, including laws against homicide, that could have kept this from happening. It was a nut case loose with a weapon. If he didn't have a gun he probably would have used a car!

    Law or lack of law cannot be your sole guide. Common sense and common decency have to prevail because the end result of error is death. I don't need a law or a lawsuit to tell me that I should maintain physical control of my weapon or that I shouldn't use it to harm people who are not trying to harm me.

    I don't care if it is a child or a responsible adult involved, I believe my gun should not be left where another person (other that possibly my wife) can gain access to it without my express permission. If I leave it where an adult or child can easily access it (not break in and steal) and it is used to harm somebody, I believe that I should be held to some degree as partially responsible. In a very real sense, I put the gun in their hands.
    We are rapidly sinking into a time of utter irresponsibility. If there isn't a law saying you can't do it, do it, no matter what the consequences, They can't arrest you for it. Of course this attitude pertains to more than just carrying a gun, but that is where we feel the impact.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.


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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    AP 5:39 a.m. CT, Sun., Nov . 22, 2009
    "HILLSBORO, Ore. - A gunman fatally wounded a passenger in another vehicle at an Oregon intersection Saturday, setting off a police chase that ended when the suspect crashed and was killed by officers, authorities said.
    The passenger, 56-year-old Danny K. Le Gore of Hillsboro, was rushed to a local hospital where he died. Police did not immediately identify the gunman.
    Police initially called the violence a road rage shooting that followed a traffic altercation, but later they backed away from that report.
    Hillsboro Lt. Henry Reimann said it still wasn't clear what happened at the intersection, and information from witnesses hadn't clarified the incident.
    Apparently a ‘random act of extreme violence’
    But he said it appeared that the gunman opened fire on the Le Gore vehicle as it was moving, pumping at least six rounds from a handgun into it.
    "It appears that this victim had no connection to the suspect in this case, and it appears to be a random act of extreme violence," the police said in a statement.
    Officers chased the gunman west to neighboring Cornelius and said he fired back at them both before and after he crashed at a downtown intersection.
    A Cornelius resident, Robert Layton, told The Oregonian newspaper the driver was barefoot and wearing camouflage pants. Layton said the man ran less than 100 feet, firing at officers, before he was hit by their return fire.
    Police said no officers were hit."

    (Sarcasm follows:)

    I don't see why the police got involved. Oregon does not have a specific law prohibiting shooting people at random at intersections! Obviously violating this guy's second amendment rights!

    (End of sarcasm.)

    Before somebody screams that this was an individual incident, all shootings are individual incidents. My point here is not that Oregon law caused this to happen because it didn't have anything to do with it. This was obviously a nut case. However, the law is not the only restriction to the use of a gun. There is probably no law on the books, including laws against homicide, that could have kept this from happening. It was a nut case loose with a weapon. If he didn't have a gun he probably would have used a car!

    Law or lack of law cannot be your sole guide. Common sense and common decency have to prevail because the end result of error is death. I don't need a law or a lawsuit to tell me that I should maintain physical control of my weapon or that I shouldn't use it to harm people who are not trying to harm me.

    I don't care if it is a child or a responsible adult involved, I believe my gun should not be left where another person (other that possibly my wife) can gain access to it without my express permission. If I leave it where an adult or child can easily access it (not break in and steal) and it is used to harm somebody, I believe that I should be held to some degree as partially responsible. In a very real sense, I put the gun in their hands.
    We are rapidly sinking into a time of utter irresponsibility. If there isn't a law saying you can't do it, do it, no matter what the consequences, They can't arrest you for it. Of course this attitude pertains to more than just carrying a gun, but that is where we feel the impact.
    What? I'm pretty sure murder is illegal in Oregon. What on Earth does this story have to do with common sense, responsibility, or the lack thereof among DC.com members?

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    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    although i agree with your point...i dont agree with your example...murder is against the law...

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    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    Law or lack of law cannot be your sole guide.
    When I'm chauffeuring relatives around the southeast side of Chicago on Christmas night, "common sense" would tell me to carry a loaded handgun while I do it.

    The law says not to.

    Are you suggesting that I violate the law?

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    wjh2657- I cannot quite understand what point you are trying to make. Can you clarify?
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

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    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    wjh2657- I cannot quite understand what point you are trying to make. Can you clarify?
    I think the gist of his thought is that just because something is not illegal doesn't mean it is always sensible to do it. I may be wrong of course.

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    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    I think the gist of his thought is that just because something is not illegal doesn't mean it is always sensible to do it.
    And I thought he meant because it is legal doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. So we have no idea what the original post was supposed to mean, but the phrase "pumping at least six rounds from a handgun" caught my interest. I've seen pump rifle, pump shotguns, and bilge pumps. I'd really like a photo of the pump handgun. Wait, I think I found one. Maybe it was this, but I wouldn't call it a handgun:

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    Well, this thread is certainly going to hell in a hand-basket!
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLSquirrelHunter View Post
    And I thought he meant because it is legal doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. So we have no idea what the original post was supposed to mean, but the phrase "pumping at least six rounds from a handgun" caught my interest. I've seen pump rifle, pump shotguns, and bilge pumps. I'd really like a photo of the pump handgun. Wait, I think I found one. Maybe it was this, but I wouldn't call it a handgun:
    I would certainly like to get my hand on that pump, and it's contents.

    I am having trouble following the example in the original post however, while I do agree with some of the sentiment in your closing.

    Biker

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    Member Array resqr9142's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLSquirrelHunter View Post
    And I thought he meant because it is legal doesn't mean it makes sense to do it. So we have no idea what the original post was supposed to mean, but the phrase "pumping at least six rounds from a handgun" caught my interest. I've seen pump rifle, pump shotguns, and bilge pumps. I'd really like a photo of the pump handgun. Wait, I think I found one. Maybe it was this, but I wouldn't call it a handgun:
    I believe the story stated that the BG was barefoot.....so this couldn't be it.
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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    WTH is this thread all about?
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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    I dunno... but common sense and the law do seem to be mutually exclusive!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  13. #13
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    The thread was in answer to many posts on this forum from Oregon that they don't have laws restricting handgun use. that any restriction on the use of a handgun is a violation of Second amendment rights. Every time we have a really stupid blunder involving the use of a handgun it seems like somebody is jumping up and saying that it may be okay because there is no law against it.
    The City of Eugene is not listed as requiring a permit to carry in city limits (Oregon permits open carry withou permit.) Since the individual could actually roam around with the weapon in the open I was pretty sure that somebody was going to leap up and say he wasn't breaking the law, until he started murdering the victim. To me the real error here was not the murder but drawing the weapon under these particular circumstances. , murder was just a consequence.Nobody from oregon answered, so thread died! Breaking the law is not what kills people, violating common decency and sense kills them.

    My point was that common sense says you don't shoot at people who aren't a threat , regardless of whther the law says you can carry the gun or not.

    The word "pumping" has nothing to do with the action of a weapon, it is a vernacular phase meaning to shoot, although not seeing as much useage as in the past. I own 10 revolvers and 8 pump shotguns, and yes I do know the difference.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    The thread was in answer to many posts on this forum from Oregon that they don't have laws restricting handgun use. that any restriction on the use of a handgun is a violation of Second amendment rights. Every time we have a really stupid blunder involving the use of a handgun it seems like somebody is jumping up and saying that it may be okay because there is no law against it.
    The City of Eugene is not listed as requiring a permit to carry in city limits (Oregon permits open carry withou permit.) Since the individual could actually roam around with the weapon in the open I was pretty sure that somebody was going to leap up and say he wasn't breaking the law, until he started murdering the victim. To me the real error here was not the murder but drawing the weapon under these particular circumstances. , murder was just a consequence.Nobody from oregon answered, so thread died! Breaking the law is not what kills people, violating common decency and sense kills them.

    My point was that common sense says you don't shoot at people who aren't a threat , regardless of whther the law says you can carry the gun or not.

    The word "pumping" has nothing to do with the action of a weapon, it is a vernacular phase meaning to shoot, although not seeing as much useage as in the past. I own 10 revolvers and 8 pump shotguns, and yes I do know the difference.
    You're still not making a bit of sense.

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