Can I CCW in a New Orlean's restaurant?
This is a discussion on Can I CCW in a New Orlean's restaurant? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hi guys,
I am visiting New Orleans next week (I am from Mississippi). Can I carry concealed while I am eating dinner in a LA ...
November 25th, 2009 09:46 PM
November 25th, 2009 10:08 PM
Carry in Restaurants That Serve Alcohol
Note: What is defined as carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol is a place like Friday’s or Red Lobster. This does not mean a bar or the bar area of a restaurant. Handgunlaw.us believes you should
never consume alcohol when carrying your firearm. In some states it is illegal to take even one drink while carrying a firearm.
My understanding of this is that if the restaurant serves alcohol at all.. Its a no. Friendly's doesnt serve alcohol, so your good in that place.... and thaaaats pretty much it. Not too sure of another place that doesnt serve. I may be wrong about this, and if i am, then please someone chime in. SC is the same way so i always lock it up when i go in somewhere.
"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." - Thomas Jefferson
G17 CC of choice.
November 25th, 2009 10:24 PM
I'm not a lawyer, but...
Here's what I found on the Official Gov't site:
- Implied consent to be searched for firearms, without a warrant, when entering an "alcoholic beverage outlet". This doesn't include include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.
"A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet."
Note, however, that the prohibitory definition of an "Alcoholic Beverage Outlet" is NOT modified in this section, reading para B.
"B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment." [Emphasis Added]
So, from this reading of the posted laws - ignoring any previous or pending judgements or local ordinances - the answer is very much No. If you can get served an alcoholic beverage there, you can't carry.
Just my 2 cents.
Protect your family. Reload. Call 911.
November 26th, 2009 07:13 AM
I would go with no...
N. No concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
(1) A law enforcement office, station, or building.
(2) A detention facility, prison, or jail.
(3) A courthouse or courtroom, provided that a judge may carry such a weapon in his own courtroom.
(4) A polling place.
(5) A meeting place of the governing authority of a political subdivision.
(6) The state capitol building.
(7) Any portion of an airport facility where the carrying of firearms is prohibited under federal law, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, if the firearm is encased for shipment, for the purpose of checking such firearm as lawful baggage.
(8) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other similar place of worship.
(9) A parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity.
(10) Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.
(11) Any school "firearm-free zone" as defined in R.S. 14:95.6.
November 26th, 2009 07:31 AM
Tough question actually. I had been informally told a good rule of thumb is not cc in the part of a restaurant that allows smoking and you'd be okay. I'm not so sure of that now, and like you, I have read conflicting statements over this.
CC in a bar? Absolutely no
CC in the bar area of a restaurant? Absolutely no
CC in a restaurant that serves alcohol in the dining area? I'm not sure, that's the grey area. Note link below, there is a lot of discussion there about your very question.
A test case at trial may offer the conclusion to this. I don't want that to be me, but I'm going to cc in a restaurant, and only in the area's that are non-smoking, I think that is how the law was intended to be written.
As you probably know, NO is like most giant cities, they are not necessarily gun-friendly. So be careful, be the "grey man", and watch out for the school zones. For instance, I understand you can be walking around in the Quarter in some places, and actually be 1000 feet from some school that would likely be unknown to you.
Have a good time and be careful. Don't be out real late, and don't go down darkened streets. Stay with the crowd's. We've been going down there for years and have had essentially no problems. Also, don't take a bet on "where you got them shoes".
Liquor establishment restriction. - Louisiana - Stories From The States - OpenCarry.org - Discussion Forum
Gain a 2A vote, take a fence-sitter shooting.
November 26th, 2009 10:27 AM
Thanks guys. Great answers!
And a great Web link 'ppkheat' (yes, I've heard of the N.O. "where you got them shoes" scam, but in coming originally from Los Angeles, I'm so use to never speaking to or acknowledging pan handlers and grifters that I ignore such "people"). The link shows just how unnecessarily complex and confusing the issue is currently in Louisiana.
While I don't want to be "the test case" for restaurant CCW carry, and get arrested, I would feel absolutely naked walking around a place with New Orlean's HUGE reputation for crime. Therefore, while visiting N.O., I will use "deep concealment", and my wife and I will eat at ordinary family restaurants that are not called "bars" (i.e., "Sports Bars"), and I will simply not drink alcohol, nor will I go near the bar area of the restaurant (if it even has one). So, unless something really weird happens, I feel that this "plan" is less risky than walking around N.O. without any protection.
November 26th, 2009 11:07 AM
I am not John Wayne or Rambo and believe in de-escalation and calling 911 before action. However, as a licensed CW holder I have a hard time leaving my weapon locked in my trunk where it cannot provide protection. I obey all laws and regulations required of me to legally carry but admit I am tempted to carry in restaurant/bars. Concealed is concealed.
Originally Posted by Bill Calley
"We're surrounded? Good, now we can kill the ******** in any direction."
~ Colonel Lewis B. "Chesty" Puller, USMC
November 26th, 2009 02:22 PM
Greetings all, this is my first post, but I have a great interest in firearms laws and want to help everybody, including myself, understand them; it seems as if they are purposely written to confuse the common man and thus discourage us from exercising our 2nd amendment.
Originally Posted by Intrepid
Anyway, one can not quote this section of the law and claim "no, you can not carry in ANY establishment that serves alcohol". I had the same situation when my family and I were taking a leisurely drive into Louisiana from Texas.
But I digress... If you download the CHL laws available from the Louisiana state website, it includes what a "Class A general retail permit" is; which the author of this post I quote failed to include. A Class A general retail permit is basically a license to sell alcohol for on site consumption, where access is restricted to the 18-and-up crowd.
So, if one can take their kids into the building, odds are you can conceal carry. At least that's how I have understood the laws after reading them over and over, much to the chagrin of my wife... lol. Anyway, I would feel comfortable carrying how I have interpreted the laws. But as they say, "your mileage may vary".
In addition, Louisiana does allow open carry, but has different and slightly tighter regulations. But that's for a different post.
Thanks for reading my long post, and I hope that we can all keep ourselves carrying legally, but we must be vigilant to ensure that we aren't all disarmed unnecessarily through confusingly written laws.
November 26th, 2009 02:57 PM
Thanks for the great comments kd5tms! The only thing that bothers me about that particular L.A. statute you mentioned is when I read a bit further down to (e) and (f), in which (f) appears to pretty much nullify the everything from (a) through (d):
Originally Posted by kd5tms
"(e) Notwithstanding the provisions of Subparagraphs (a) through (d) of this Paragraph, the commissioner may issue a Class A - General liquor permit to any bona fide commercial film theater which had a Class A liquor permit on January 1, 1994.
(f) Notwithstanding the provisions of Subparagraphs (a) through (e) of this Paragraph, the commissioner may issue a Class A - General retail permit to any retail establishment for consumption on or off the premises. Such establishment must meet all state and local health and zoning requirements as set forth by the state and by parishes and municipalities where the retail outlet is located. A Class A - General retail permit issued pursuant to the authority granted by this Subparagraph shall not be deemed or qualify as a prerequisite for the issuance of any other type license or permit issued by the state or any political subdivisions thereof."
However, as I am not a lawyer (to say the least), I am still confused (as was probably intended when they wrote the L.A. law anyway )
November 26th, 2009 04:05 PM
It's CC right, so who would know.... : )
For God, Family and Country!
November 26th, 2009 04:55 PM
I haven't been able to find any documentation on the Class A liquor permit pre 1994, but I imagine section (e) is in place to let those theaters with a Class A liquor permit to obtain a Class A General license. I would infer that there was some rewrite in LA law around 1994, but can't find any online information about it.
Originally Posted by Bill Calley
And section (f) does seem to make the issuance of a Class A permit up to the discretion of the local commissioner. I'm not sure why that would be in there.
End result, the law clearly states a Class A General is a no-no for CHL. The easiest way for us to find out if an establishment carries a Class A General would be for a sign posted at all entrances/exits informing so, similar to Texas' "51" rule, but I can't remember any legislation jumping out at me in LA CHL laws stipulating so. You could ask the hostess/host... "Excuse me, do you have a Class A General Alcohol Permit?" Weird question to ask out of the blue... lol.
Until then, can anybody explain subsection (f)?
November 28th, 2009 12:22 PM
I have been looking at the laws of LA and what is defined as a restaurant. But there are many different kinds of permits.
§71.1. Class A permit; definitions
(1) Class A-General:
(2) Class A-Restaurant:
(3) Class A-Special:
(4) Class A-Restaurant-Conditional:
http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=84797 here is the link to the laws
§73. Restaurant "R" permit;
Class A Retail Liquor Permit for the sale of beverages of high alcohol content.\
It looks to me like a restaurant that serves alcohol (beer) needs a certain permit and one that sells hard liquor needs another type of permit and that different restaurants need other permits. Restaurants that serve alcohol would need two or more different types of permits.
It is very difficult to understand as there are so many different types etc etc. Handgunlaw.us will continue to carry LA as NO restaurant carry because I can't figure out exactly what the law is saying. It says so many different things it is impossible to understand all the differences without a law degree. I would bet that the way the law is written the Authorities can do about anything they wish when it comes to CCW in a Restaurant that serves alcohol and let the person have their day in court.
What is needed is for a State Official (Rep or Senator) to officially ask the LA AG for an opinion on what is the definition of Restaurant in the Firearms laws and if the law allows carry in places that meet the definition of a restaurant but serve alcohol. The AG will not give an official answer to someone who is not an elected official of the state.
I have to be responsible for what I put on Handgunlaw.us. To put there restaurant carry is legal when from all that I can read and hear the people who write and enforce the laws are not sure. They may say yes but if a Senator, Representative, LEO or Firearms Instructor tells you it is OK means the same thing as reading it on a website somewhere. We need an official opinion from the LA AG on this. IF the law were clear on this it would be different but it is not clear at all and open to what ever someone whats to read into it.
Can someone from LA please email me at firstname.lastname@example.org with the name of 2 or 3 Reps or Senators in LA who are gun friendly and I will contact them asking them to ask for an official opinion. Please put LA Gun Friendly Rep or Sen in the subject line so I know what it is.
I also encourage anyone living in LA to contact their Rep or Sen and ask them to ask for an official opinion. The more who ask the Rep's and Sen's the more likely we are to get an opinion. That is what we need to be sure.
Member Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network
November 28th, 2009 02:47 PM
Thanks for the added info, Gary! And thanks for hosting and creating such a great site like Handgunlaw.us; I use it every week or so, as I do with defensivecarry.com.
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