A VICTORY FOR CC & Self Protection

This is a discussion on A VICTORY FOR CC & Self Protection within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; One of the MAJOR concerns that most of us have as CCers, is what happens if we have to use it for our self protection, ...

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Thread: A VICTORY FOR CC & Self Protection

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    A VICTORY FOR CC & Self Protection

    One of the MAJOR concerns that most of us have as CCers, is what happens if we have to use it for our self protection, especially if we have to out on the street. Far too often the shooter is the one that ends up in Jail.

    But here in Seattle ( yes SEATTLE of all places ) A Woman dropped an unarmed person who was threatening Her @ a Metro Bus stop back in April. A even though, IMHO, She & Her companions "exasperated"the situation by their own harassment of the "victim" NO CHARGES were filed against Her by our PA.

    Local News | No charges to be filed against woman who shot man at bus stop | Seattle Times Newspaper

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    Distinguished Member Array REVMAN's Avatar
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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    This is GREAT news. I recall this case from last year and have kept my eyes open for an update. The media has been suspiciously silent...

    here is the original thread:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...tercation.html

    I also want to point out, here in Washington State, if a jury finds you not guilty by means of self defense, the state has to pay for your legal bills. I am sure that played a role here- there is not much extra money floating around for the prosecutors to fool around with a likely to loose case...

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    Member Array skeet732's Avatar
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    I wonder what the outcome would have been if the woman had not been armed? "Man arrested in brutal attack on mother of four" Children traumatized by the sight of their mommy being stomped on" " DB gets off on a technicality" I like ******* gets shot better!!!!!


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    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    I like this story except for one thing. She was held for 2 days before being released without charges.

    WHY was she held for 2 days? The police would have investigated and interviewed witnesses at the scene. The witnesses would have told the same story that they did. Based on that the woman was acting in self defense regardless of what the dirtbag would have said.

    A 2-4 hour detention while the investigation was being conducted would have been sufficient IMO. ESPECIALLY as she was with her young children at the time.

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Maybe did something smart like, not talk to the police without council?

    I'd be more than happy to sit with duct tape over my mouth for 2 days in interview rooms if it betters my chances of not trying my luck with the legal system.
    Sticks

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    It is obvious (to me at least) that they wanted to charge her, but didn't think it was worth financial and political risk. It has taken them 6 months to decide.

    The initial police assessment was to arrest/charge her (hence the 2 days in jail), but they had a thin case and released her. After 6 months of looking, they couldn't find something to convict her with...

    just my .02 cents
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    New Member Array JT1JT1's Avatar
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    Can I play devil's advocate?

    Had the woman NOT been armed, would she still have pushed the guy off her, engaged in a verbal confrontation and then made obscene gestures once she was off the bus and presumably safe?

    If her being armed was what emboldened her to continue the engagement with the BG, then that may not be a clear-cut win for CCW crowd.

    It may sound like Monday Morning QBing, but I hope that if I pull my carry weapon, it's absolutely clear that I've done absolutely nothing to exacerbate the situation and everything to defuse it. But I'm human so perhaps that won't be the case...

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    I am hesitant to call this a victory. While the guy was initially acting like a jackass and probably scared everyone, you can't shoot someone because you are scared. She (along with her family) kept the altercation going by swearing and gesturing at the guy. It might be media/police bias, but it sounds like the situation would have ended when they exited the bus if they had just left quietly. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be in that situation, but most states would say she was responsible for keeping that altercation going and thus had not acted out of self defense.

    I agree w JT1JT1, some people act more boldly than they should because they are armed, whereas most tiptoe more quietly because they know the risks of getting in a fistfight with a gun on the hip, and they don't want to end up having to shoot someone. If she had been quiet and the situation continued forward I would support her 100%, but I can't say that she did her job to try to diffuse things properly before pulling out a gun. This is the kind of thing the sheeple claimed would happen nonstop if the concealed carry bills passed. I'm very thankful it does not happen frequently because it makes us look bad.

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    I`m ecstatic that the lady defended herself.When I took my cc class,the instructor quite candidly told us that a woman would be given far more leeway by the D.A. than a man would.I`d like more leeway myself but I`m happy for the woman.
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    New Member Array murfnamedmsu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubadub View Post
    I`m ecstatic that the lady defended herself.When I took my cc class,the instructor quite candidly told us that a woman would be given far more leeway by the D.A. than a man would.I`d like more leeway myself but I`m happy for the woman.
    That's generally true and it makes sense in many ways, but on the other hand what man in his right mind is going to engage someone in a fistfight while he is carrying, knowing he could have his gun taken from him? Even if that's not the case, at what point is he supposedly justified in moving from fists to firearms? I'm very glad women get a fair chance to defend themselves, but in some cases it has seemed like there was an unrealistic expectation for a man to magically escape the situation without rightfully using his firearm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by murfnamedmsu View Post
    I am hesitant to call this a victory. While the guy was initially acting like a jackass and probably scared everyone, you can't shoot someone because you are scared. She (along with her family) kept the altercation going by swearing and gesturing at the guy. It might be media/police bias, but it sounds like the situation would have ended when they exited the bus if they had just left quietly. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to be in that situation, but most states would say she was responsible for keeping that altercation going and thus had not acted out of self defense.

    I agree w JT1JT1, some people act more boldly than they should because they are armed, whereas most tiptoe more quietly because they know the risks of getting in a fistfight with a gun on the hip, and they don't want to end up having to shoot someone. If she had been quiet and the situation continued forward I would support her 100%, but I can't say that she did her job to try to diffuse things properly before pulling out a gun. This is the kind of thing the sheeple claimed would happen nonstop if the concealed carry bills passed. I'm very thankful it does not happen frequently because it makes us look bad.

    Well said. The news story said he stayed on the bus until she and her family continued to provoke him, had they exercised even the slightest restraint it seems that it would have ended with no confrontation at all. I think that is the lesson I would have taught my kids, not its ok to act any way you want because mommy has a gun.
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    Sounds like a good shoot to me. I only wish there were more people that refuse to back down to the dirtbags in this world.

    To those here that think she was wrong, I say grow a spine. She was with her childern and her"partner", she was threatened, sounds like what you are supposed to do. You know,defend yourself and your family

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    I agree with you two above to a point. She did not respond with the kind of avoidance and deescalation that I expect of myself. Especially when armed.

    However, making obscene gestures (while not a good idea) is not illegal. Neither is swearing. (I suppose one could commit a public disturbance).

    Ultimately, this man exited the bus and acted in a way that caused this woman to fear for her and her children's safety. She responded to that threat. The prosecutor agree her action was not criminal.

    Circumstances can change in a second...
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    I agree with you two above to a point. She did not respond with the kind of avoidance and deescalation that I expect of myself. Especially when armed.

    However, making obscene gestures (while not a good idea) is not illegal. Neither is swearing. (I suppose one could commit a public disturbance).


    Ultimately, this man exited the bus and acted in a way that caused this woman to fear for her and her children's safety. She responded to that threat. The prosecutor agree her action was not criminal.

    Circumstances can change in a second...
    This was not smart, nor illegal, but contributes to the facts of the case surrounding the victims actions contributing to the shooting...instigating the incident. These kinds of actions can cause problems in almost any state.
    She was certainly within her right of SD, but didn't make it easy, and it doesn't sound like she let a lawyer do her talking.
    Glad she will be OK and that the dirtbag got what he really deserved.
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