We are educating the BGs - defense of property

[DBRideout]

With the surprising amount of people responding to this thread about how they would not stop a criminal from stealing their property that they've worked so hard for, has rang a correlating bell in my head.

With all of the taxes proposed and levied by our Government, we just sit back and continue to let them have what we've worked so hard for, and they just continue to want more, similar to the BG we've been citing.
If Sticks is right with his 50/50 split decision on this subject then no wonder we the people have lost control of our Government and they now ignore us when we tell them to stop...

The perspectives in this thread has shown me how our Government got into it's present exasperating state. They appear the same to me.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[scotthsi]

I'd be fine with letting the insurance company buy me a new truck or grill.

Got that rare zero deductible with correspondingly high premiums, huh? $500 or so isn't exactly pocket change, which is what I'd be out for my home owner's or auto insurance deductible. My brand new grill didn't even cost $500, so I'd be buying it myself out of pocket. Plus, I wouldn't even TRY to make such a small home owner's claim. As for the truck, you might even get lucky enough for them to raise your rates because 1) your company had to pay out for ANYTHING, 2) the new truck is worth more and the rates would be higher...and that's a gift that keeps on "giving"...

[cl00bie]

No flames required here, as I am stating my opinion, as you have done in your post. I find it interesting that you describe yourself as a 'rightwinger', and yet espouse the very base of liberal idealogy, which is your being disturbed by the 'good guy/bad guy mentality', and the 'black and white' syndrome.

Political ideology is sometimes "shades of gray"

[cl00bie]

My intent is to not be a victim. That does not mean that because I have a CCW permit and a gun owner that I am absolutely, without fail, responding to any criminal act against me and mine with my weapon first and only. Everyone has options available to them. So why don't we use them?

There's more than one way to be a victim. One way is getting myself hauled before 12 people who were not smart enough to get out of jury duty, convicted by some liberal D.A., and thrown in prison preventing me from supporting and protecting my family.

For me, that chance is not going to be taken in defense of "stuff". I will try my best to get myself out of a confrontational situation. If, and only if I'm cornered or my family is threatened, then I'll do my darnedest to incapacitate the perp.

[edr9x23super]

With all of the taxes proposed and levied by our Government, we just sit back and continue to let them have what we've worked so hard for, and they just continue to want more, similar to the BG we've been citing.
If Sticks is right with his 50/50 split decision on this subject then no wonder we the people have lost control of our Government and they now ignore us when we tell them to stop...

My late Grandfathers' point precisely; if we as a nation have become so complacent that we refuse to fight for what is ours gained through hard work and toil, so shall we fail to fight for everything else including our representative government. He also used to tell me that to do what was right and true was always harder than doing wrong, which he described: "doing wrong is choosing the easy path, in much the same way water chooses it's path. It is always tempting, and it easily leads one down the path of no return; and like water, those who do wrong continuously follow twisted paths through failed lives. That is why we have crooked rivers and crooked men"....

Words never truer spoken, Grasshopper.....

[self protect]

I have read this whole thread and I dont think anyone is saying that they wouldnt try and stop someone from taking there stuff,they may just try in a different way than shooting someone. They are just saying they wouldnt kill someone over something as small as a grill. Everyone here is saying the same thing about protecting there familys, just not killing over personal, replaceable items. Even if you were in the right to do so it would turn your world upside down one way or another. Is it worth it???

[tiwee]

cl00bie:

hauled before 12 people who were not smart enough to get out of jury duty

lol Never looked at it that way.

[JerryM]

"before 12 people who were not smart enough to get out of jury duty, convicted by some liberal D.A., and thrown in prison preventing me from supporting and protecting my family."

I have to take issue with a statement that if one is on a jury he is not smart enough to have gotten out of it.

To me it is a duty of being a good citizen. It is amazing that some criticize the justice system, but do not want to be on a jury. I don't think anyone is too smart to be a juror.

I also am critical of the system, but one of the things wrong is that some consider themselves too smart or too important to help in the judgment of other citizens; some of who are not guilty and some who are. Those who think their time is too valuable to be on a jury deserve what they get if they ever appear before a court. I would have to wonder how smart that is.

Regards,
Jerry

[ccw9mm]

I have to take issue with a statement that if one is on a jury he is not smart enough to have gotten out of it.

To me it is a duty of being a good citizen.

To me, as well. And yet, the truth remains: to many, it does not. Many simply won't understand that "the system" will merely be that, grinding "gears" and all, unless upstanding people are there to keep an eye on things. This is one of the ways in which we do that. The citizen is all, when the citizen takes charge in such ways. Not even judges can effectively thwart the will of upstanding people, not for long. It's that important.

Those who think their time is too valuable to be on a jury deserve what they get if they ever appear before a court. I would have to wonder how smart that is.

I know exactly how you feel.

[tiwee]

When called, I have been bumped from the pool. Don't know if it has been the defense or prosecutor. Probably the bailiff.

[Frogbones]

Do bad guys read forums like this, I don't know if they do or not. If they do the premise that the OP makes is probably correct. If they don't, real live teaches the BG the same thing that he would learn if he read these types of forums.

If the BG goes and demands money, keys, whatever from someone and that person hands it over says don't hurt me and waits to call the police after the BG leaves, it is pretty likely that the BG is going to try it again, and again, and again, and eventually he will either get caught, someone will stand up to him, or get lucky and live off of other people hard work.

What is a life worth and what are you allowed to do if someone is holding you up or stealing your BBQ grill? Each state has its own laws that tells you what is legal and what a life is worth. Whether or not you agree with that is up to you. If you choose to let them take the wallet or grill or car or whatever is your call. After you make the call then it depends on what the state law is, and whether or not there will be any reprecussions from it.

As far as the book in the In Gravest Extreme, I have never read it, I am sure it is probably a good read and might get around to it one day, but just because Ayoob thinks or says you should or shouldn't act in a certain way does not mean that is what I have or need to do. Yes he is considered an expert in his field and has been called to testify in cases or whatever. But I certainly think that when writing his book, and offering it up as a teaching tool, or in his classes, he takes every precaution to cover his arse. If he had written the book based on Texas law and told folks that it was fine to go out at night and shoot someone for criminal mischief, he would probably have a couple of results. Not too many books being sold and someone would probably sue him for selling advice that landed them in jail.

Will I stand by and let someone take my stuff, or willingly hand it over to them, probably not. It is mine, if they want something similar they need to get a job, and get stuff themselves. Is my stuff, no matter what it's worth, more valuable than their life, yep. They are the ones putting a lesser value on their life by engaging in activities that could get them placed in jail, hurt or dead. Again, each state has their own set of rules that determine what a life is worth. If a criminal is smart they will pick a state that places a very high value on their life. Texas is not one of them, and allows me to a wide range of options in protecting both my family and my property. God I love Texas.

Thanks....couldn't have said it better..almost word for word.

[mprp]

I have read this whole thread and I dont think anyone is saying that they wouldnt try and stop someone from taking there stuff,they may just try in a different way than shooting someone. They are just saying they wouldnt kill someone over something as small as a grill. Everyone here is saying the same thing about protecting there familys, just not killing over personal, replaceable items. Even if you were in the right to do so it would turn your world upside down one way or another. Is it worth it???

Actually, I would kill someone stealing my grill if I had one of my tri-tips a cookin' on it.

[liljake82]

edr9x23super, excelent post! Sounds like grandpa super was a heck of a man.

This talk of grey areas is a bunch of hooy. The law is the law, and you are either upholding it or breaking it.

This talk of putting monetary value on a human life is a bunch of hooy too. In all reality you don't know me, I don't know you, and I probably don't know the guy running off with your grill. What do I care wether he lives or dies? What do you care if I live or die? If you find a letter in your mail box saying give me $1,000,000 or liljake82 gets it are you going to pay? What about $1,000? $100? Will I shoot someone rumaging through the tool box of my truck? Probably not. Will I do what I can to stop him? You bet your *****! What will I do to stop them? It depends. I might just call the police, I may walk out there with a gun. If he runs off (with or without his loot) I might follow. If he comes at me I'd probably fire. One would have to assess the situation and variables befor reacting. It would be foolhardy to run out the door, gun in hand, at the first sign of trouble, but it may also be foolhardy to cower in the corner as thugs run off with anything not nailed down. Is a BG's life worth $19.99? Probably not, but $19.99 is worth me trying to stop it and if the BG puts me in a position where I have to fight HE has decided his life is worth $19.99.

[DBRideout]

I love hearing the words of our elders. Sure miss mine.