Some info.

This is a discussion on Some info. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The local gun range sent this out to it members. The owner received this info in an e-mail from a LE friend so I copied ...

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    Member Array Delucas's Avatar
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    Arrow Some info.

    The local gun range sent this out to it members. The owner received this info in an e-mail from a LE friend so I copied and pasted here for all to read.
    It's d**n good info to be aware of:


    New findings from FBI about cop attackers & their weapons

    New findings on how offenders train with, carry and deploy the weapons they use to attack police officers have emerged in a just-published, 5-year study by the FBI.

    Among other things, the data reveal that most would-be cop killers:
    --show signs of being armed that officers miss;
    --have more experience using deadly force in "street combat" than their intended victims;
    --practice with firearms more often and shoot more accurately;
    --have no hesitation whatsoever about pulling the trigger. "If you hesitate," one told the study's researchers, "you're dead. You have the instinct or you don't. If you don't, you're in trouble on the street.."

    These and other weapons-related findings comprise one chapter in a 180-page research summary called "Violent Encounters: A Study of Felonious Assaults on Our Nation's Law Enforcement Officers." The study is the third in a series of long investigations into fatal and nonfatal attacks on POs by the FBI team of Dr. Anthony Pinizzotto, clinical forensic psychologist, and Ed Davis, criminal investigative instructor, both with the Bureau's Behavioral Science Unit, and Charles Miller III, coordinator of the LEOs Killed and Assaulted program.

    "Violent Encounters" also reports in detail
    on the personal characteristics of attacked
    officers and their assaulters, the role of
    perception in life-threatening confrontations,
    the myths of memory that can hamper OIS
    investigations, the suicide-by-cop
    phenomenon, current training issues,
    and other matters relevant to officer
    survival. (Force Science News and our
    strategic partner PoliceOne.com will be
    reporting on more findings from this
    landmark study in future transmissions.)
    Commenting on the broad-based study,
    Dr. Bill Lewinski, executive director of
    the Force Science Research Center at
    Minnesota State University-Mankato, called
    it "very challenging and insightful--
    important work that only a handful of gifted
    and experienced researchers could
    accomplish."

    From a pool of more than 800 incidents,
    the researchers selected 40, involving
    43 offenders (13 of them admitted
    gangbangers-drug traffickers) and
    50 officers, for in-depth exploration.
    They visited crime scenes and extensively
    interviewed surviving officers and
    attackers alike, most of the latter in
    prison.
    Here are highlights of what they learned
    about weapon selection, familiarity,
    transport and use by criminals attempting
    to murder cops, a small portion of the
    overall research:

    Weapon Choice

    Predominately handguns were used in the
    assaults on officers and all but one were
    obtained illegally, usually in street
    transactions or in thefts. In contrast
    to media myth, none of the firearms in
    the study was obtained from gun shows.
    What was available "was the overriding
    factor in weapon choice," the report
    says. Only 1 offender hand-picked a
    particular gun "because he felt it would do
    the most damage to a human being."

    Researcher Davis , in a presentation and
    discussion for the International Assn. of
    Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the
    attackers interviewed was "hindered by any
    law--federal, state or local--that has ever
    been established to prevent gun ownership.
    They just laughed at gun laws."

    Familiarity
    Several of the offenders began regularly
    to carry weapons when they were 9 to 12
    years old, although the average age was
    17 when they first started packing "most
    of the time." Gang members especially
    started young. Nearly 40% of the offenders
    had some type of formal firearms training,
    primarily from the military. More than
    80% "regularly practiced with handguns,
    averaging 23 practice sessions a year,"
    the study reports, usually in informal
    settings like trash dumps, rural woods,
    back yards and "street corners in known
    drug-trafficking areas."

    One spoke of being motivated to improve
    his gun skills by his belief that officers
    "go to the range two, three times a week
    [and] practice arms so they can hit
    anything."

    In reality, victim officers in the study
    averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training
    and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of
    the 50 officers reported practicing
    regularly with handguns apart from what
    their department required, and that was
    mostly in competitive shooting. Overall,
    the offenders practiced more often than the
    officers they assaulted, and this "may have
    helped increase [their] marksmanship

    skills," the study says.

    The offender quoted above about his practice
    motivation, for example, fired 12 rounds
    at an officer, striking him 3 times. The
    officer fired 7 rounds, all misses.

    More than 40% of the offenders had been
    involved in actual shooting confrontations
    before they feloniously assaulted an
    officer. Ten of these "street combat
    veterans," all from "inner-city,
    drug-trafficking environments," had taken
    part in 5 or more "criminal firefight
    experiences" in their lifetime.

    One reported that he was 14 when he was
    first shot on the street, "about 18 before a cop shot me." Another said getting shot was a pivotal experience "because I made up my mind no one was gonna shoot me again."

    Again in contrast, only 8 of the 50
    LEO victims had participated in a prior
    shooting; 1 had been involved in 2
    previously, another in 3. Seven of the 8
    had killed offenders.

    Concealment

    The offenders said they most often hid guns
    on their person in the front waistband,
    with the groin area and the small of the
    back nearly tied for second place. Some
    occasionally gave their weapons to another
    person to carry, "most often a female
    companion." None regularly used a holster,
    and about 40% at least sometimes carried
    a backup weapon.

    In motor vehicles, they most often kept
    their firearm readily available on their
    person, or, less often, under the seat.
    In residences, most stashed their weapon
    under a pillow, on a nightstand, under the
    mattress--somewhere within immediate
    reach while in bed.

    Almost all carried when on the move and
    strong majorities did so when socializing,
    committing crimes or being at home. About
    one-third brought weapons with them to work.
    Interestingly, the offenders in this study
    more commonly admitted having guns under
    all these circumstances than did offenders
    interviewed in the researchers' earlier 2
    surveys, conducted in the 1980s and '90s.

    According to Davis , "Male offenders said
    time and time again that female officers
    tend to search them more thoroughly than
    male officers. In prison, most of the
    offenders were more afraid to carry
    contraband or weapons when a female CO
    was on duty."

    On the street, however, both male and female
    officers too often regard female subjects
    "as less of a threat, assuming that they
    not going to have a gun," Davis said. In
    truth, the researchers concluded that more
    female offenders are armed today than 20
    years ago--"not just female gang associates,
    but female offenders generally."

    Shooting Style

    Twenty-six of the offenders [about 60%],
    including all of the street combat veterans,
    "claimed to be instinctive shooters,
    pointing and firing the weapon without
    consciously aligning the sights," the
    study says.

    "They practice getting the gun out and
    using it," Davis explained. "They shoot
    for effect." Or as one of the offenders
    put it: "[W]e're not working with no
    marksmanship..We just putting it in your
    direction, you know..It don't matter.as
    long as it's gonna hit you.if it's up at
    your head or your chest, down at your legs,
    whatever..Once I squeeze and you fall,
    then.if I want to execute you, then I
    could go from there."

    Hit Rate

    More often than the officers they attacked,
    offenders delivered at least some rounds
    on target in their encounters. Nearly 70%
    of assailants were successful in that
    regard with handguns, compared to about
    40% of the victim officers, the study
    found. (Efforts of offenders and officers
    to get on target were considered
    successful if any rounds struck, regardless
    of the number fired.)

    Davis speculated that the offenders might
    have had an advantage because in all but
    3 cases they fired first, usually catching
    the officer by surprise. Indeed, the report
    points out, "10 of the total victim
    officers had been wounded [and thus impaired]
    before they returned gunfire at their
    attackers."

    Missed Cues

    Officers would less likely be caught off
    guard by attackers if they were more
    observant of indicators of concealed
    weapons, the study concludes. These
    particularly include manners of dress,
    ways of moving and unconscious gestures
    often related to carrying.

    "Officers should look for unnatural
    protrusions or bulges in the waist, back
    and crotch areas," the study says, and
    watch for "shirts that appear rippled or
    wavy on one side of the body while the
    fabric on the other side appears smooth."
    In warm weather, multilayered clothing
    inappropriate to the temperature may be
    a giveaway. On cold or rainy days, a
    subject's jacket hood may not be covering
    his head because it is being used to
    conceal a handgun.

    Because they eschew holsters, offenders
    reported frequently touching a concealed
    gun with hands or arms "to assure themselves
    that it is still hidden, secure and
    accessible" and hasn't shifted. Such
    gestures are especially noticeable "whenever
    individuals change body positions, such
    as standing, sitting or exiting a vehicle."
    If they run, they may need to keep a
    constant grip on a hidden gun to control
    it.

    Just as cops generally blade their body to
    make their sidearm less accessible, armed
    criminals "do the same in encounters with
    LEOs to ensure concealment and easy
    access."

    An irony, Davis noted, is that officers
    who are assigned to look for concealed
    weapons, while working off-duty security
    at night clubs for instance, are often
    highly proficient at detecting them. "But
    then when they go back to the street
    without that specific assignment, they
    seem to 'turn off' that skill," and thus
    are startled--sometimes fatally--when a
    suspect suddenly produces a weapon and
    attacks.

    Mind-set

    Thirty-six of the 50 officers in the study
    had "experienced hazardous situations where
    they had the legal authority" to use
    deadly force "but chose not to shoot." They
    averaged 4 such prior incidents before the
    encounters that the researchers
    investigated. "It appeared clear that none
    of these officers were willing to use
    deadly force against an offender if other
    options were available," the researchers
    concluded.

    The offenders were of a different mind-set
    entirely. In fact, Davis said the study
    team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger
    generation of offender is. They have been
    exposed to killing after killing, they fully
    expect to get killed and they don't
    hesitate to shoot anybody, including a
    police officer. They can go from riding
    down the street saying what a beautiful
    day it is to killing in the next instant."

    "Offenders typically displayed no moral
    or ethical restraints in using firearms,
    " the report states. "In fact, the street
    combat veterans survived by developing a
    shoot-first mentality.

    "Officers never can assume that a criminal
    is unarmed until they have thoroughly
    searched the person and the surroundings
    themselves." Nor, in the interest of
    personal safety, can officers "let their
    guards down in any type of law enforcement
    situation."



    Time for me to get that training I've so desperately been needing to get.
    Last edited by Delucas; December 5th, 2009 at 09:58 PM.
    Grassroots SC, SC CWP, NH NR-PRL

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  3. #2
    Member Array hengst's Avatar
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    Very interesting info. Folks on this forum probably practice more than an LEO, very sad. If you are not at the range at least 1x a month doing quality training you may want to up you time a little.
    I would really be interested in knowing if their is a "caliber of choice" that a gangbanger would usefor some reason I envisions 9mm and 380's.

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    Interesting read...
    "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can't make it without Texas!".... Sam Houston

    Retired LEO
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    Member Array MeatPuppet's Avatar
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    Sobering info.

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    Member Array cliffyp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hengst View Post
    I would really be interested in knowing if their is a "caliber of choice" that a gangbanger would usefor some reason I envisions 9mm and 380's.
    What was available "was the overriding
    factor in weapon choice," the report said.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Pitmaster's Avatar
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    I read that at least a year or two ago.
    Pitmaster

    HELGA: Where are you going?
    HAGAR: To sign a peace treaty with the King of England.
    HELGA: Then why take all those weapons?
    HAGAR: First we gotta negotiate...

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    Very interesting read, not what one would expect...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Good read...
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  10. #9
    Member Array basher052's Avatar
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    Thanks for that. Im printing it out and giving it to a few LEO friends to read. Scary how quick your skills leave you.
    Andy
    You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas - David Crockett
    When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

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    New Member Array kd5tms's Avatar
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    "...In reality, victim officers in the study averaged just 14 hours of sidearm training and 2.5 qualifications per year. Only 6 of the 50 officers reported practicing regularly with handguns apart from what their department required, and that was mostly in competitive shooting. Overall, the offenders practiced more often than the officers they assaulted, and his "may have helped increase [their] marksmanship skills," the study says...."

    And these are the people the gun grabbers would have us call on the phone, 30 minutes away, while we're holed up between the nightstand and wall, hoping they can make it in time to save the day.

    I have great respect for what most LEs do, what they've taken on as their profession. But for others, it's just a job, which means doing the very minimum to get buy. Unfortunately, this is one of the rare professions where "survival of the fittest" isn't just a motto, it's live-or-die. And it's sad when an officer is referred to as a 'victim'.

    "Why do you carry a gun?"
    "Because a cop is too heavy...

    .... And I'm a better shot, too."

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    Very interesting and sobering read. I'd love to practice drawing and shooting skills with my CW, but the public shooting range doesn't allow holstered guns or rapid fire (no quick double-tap practice). I don't believe the only indoor range does either. Might need to follow up on that one.

    "In fact, Davis said the study team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of offender is."

    Interesting point here. My father and I got into a heated argument about a case where an Eagle Scout was kicked out of school because he had his camping hatchet in the trunk of his car. The school (like many) has a "No weapons" policy. Dad was irate about it and thought it was rediculous since the boy had it locked in the trunk. I tried to point out that, unlike kids of his generation (he's 87), kids nowadays will get pissed off about anything it seems, go out to the car, and return with whatever weapon they had in the trunk and use it, thus the "zero tolerance" policies. He, too, does not realize how cold-blooded the younger generation of offender is.
    "How did they know he had a hatchet?" he asked. He wouldn't accept that it didn't matter; the guy had a "weapon" as defined by school policy and chose to either knowingly or unknowingly ignore or disobey.

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    Member Array uncballzer's Avatar
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    all but one were
    obtained illegally, usually in street
    transactions or in thefts. In contrast
    to media myth, none of the firearms in
    the study was obtained from gun shows.
    What was available "was the overriding
    factor in weapon choice," the report
    says.
    Researcher Davis , in a presentation and
    discussion for the International Assn. of
    Chiefs of Police, noted that none of the
    attackers interviewed was "hindered by any
    law--federal, state or local--that has ever
    been established to prevent gun ownership.
    They just laughed at gun laws."
    Hopefully a few "mayors" will read this.

    This though is what scares me:
    Only 1 offender hand-picked a
    particular gun "because he felt it would do
    the most damage to a human being."
    BLONDIE: You may run the risks, my friend, but I do the cutting. If we cut down my percentage... cigar? Liable to interfere with my aim.

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    Even if the report is somewhat dated, the criminal element is still very much current and growing. As a culture we continue to harbor and embrace a permissive society whereby anything goes. Unfortunately, our current government unwittingly supports this.

    As a former LEO of long ago, I realize I had it easy. Today I can’t imagine being a LEO with so many restraints. As the report suggests, many officers didn’t use deadly force when such action would have been justified. A gangbanger isn’t held to any restrictions or repercussions so they shoot without impunity. In fact, it was this specific portion of the report that rang out for me.

    “The offenders were of a different mind-set entirely. In fact, Davis said the study team "did not realize how cold blooded the younger generation of offender is. They have been exposed to killing after killing, they fully expect to get killed and they don't hesitate to shoot anybody, including a police officer. They can go from riding down the street saying what a beautiful day it is to killing in the next instant."

    So, for current LEO’s its pretty much kill or be killed and if the career goes out the window, so be it. As for little ole’ me of, nobody from nowhere, I just decided to renew my range fees and dirty up my guns.
    Thanks for the sanity check.
    Regards,
    Dan
    “Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
    ~ Stephen King

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    VIP Member Array Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncballzer View Post
    Hopefully a few "mayors" will read this.
    They may have read it or will read it, but since it is contrary to their belief, they will discard it as inaccurate and fiction. Just some story a gun nut wrote.
    Sticks

    Grasseater // Grass~eat~er noun, often attributive \ˈgras-ē-tər\
    A person who is incapable of independent thought; a person who is herd animal-like in behavior; one who cannot distinguish between right and wrong; a foolish person.
    See also Sheep

  16. #15
    Member Array Bart's Avatar
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    Nothing new, certainly no surprise. Anyone watching the nightly news or reading the newspaper in the last decade should have figured it out without another study or report.

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