prosecution for legal modifications? - Page 4

prosecution for legal modifications?

This is a discussion on prosecution for legal modifications? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I knew what he was trying to say... Please stop bickering...the mods are watching...

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  1. #46
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I knew what he was trying to say...

    Please stop bickering...the mods are watching
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


  2. #47
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    Let's discuss the thread topic, and omit the personal comments....
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
    Blame it on Sixto - now that is a viable plan.

  3. #48
    Ex Member Array scotthsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    but only if they are trying to make the case out to be premeditated. Hard to do that in a self defensive trial.
    But, that's exactly what they might try to do. Paint a person as a "Dirty Harry" type looking to "make someone's day" BECAUSE they had a super duper modded weapon to make it more accurate and faster (i.e. MORE deadly) to shoot. They might say that person was out looking for trouble and elevated a situation to the point of deadly force just so they could use their gun. Ridiculous? Yes, but I wouldn't put it past them...

    On this point, I do agree with Ayoob and MattLarson.

  4. #49
    Ex Member Array scotthsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    I knew what he was trying to say...
    Thanks. It's still Monday morning here.

    My mistake, which I admitted, and I guess some people just can't nicely say something like, "I'm not sure (whatever) was the right word/term. Did you mean (insert something relevant) instead?" But, nope...straight to personal attacks...

  5. #50
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    What round is it..
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." – Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." – Thomas Jefferson

  6. #51
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Round 14 I think.

    A man misses a lot when not logged in for a day or so.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  7. #52
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotthsi View Post
    Ok there, Mr. Wizard. EXTENUATING circumstance. Better?
    No.

    You are talking about introducing evidence of modification of a firearm as a defense to an intentional shooting - I.E. the shooting was unintentional.

    Doing that completely eliminates the defense of self defense which is a justification defense.

    You can use mutually contradictory defenses...but having done that in a self defense trial, it turned out badly for the defendant for a number of reasons which I won't go into...

    Quote Originally Posted by scotthsi View Post
    So, show us your "background", aka internet claim to fame in this area...
    It isn't an internet claim to fame...
    You want a PDF of my JD degree or one of my admission to the office of Commissioner of the Superior Court of the State of Connecticut?

  8. #53
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Round 14 I think.

    A man misses a lot when not logged in for a day or so.
    Sixteen. Sixteen...

    You missed 2 rounds...

  9. #54
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    I admit that I don't know the legal terms but all he was trying to say is that it would enter in as evidence to charge someone with voluntary manslaughter (or something to that effect). If they can't get you with murder they will try to get you with something.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  10. #55
    Member Array mamakennedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattLarson View Post
    I am aware of the 5th Amendment. My post clearly said in a civil action.

    Matt
    The fifth amendment can be applied to civil litigation to an extent. Any statement you make to police or in court has the possibility to be used in another court case or investigation against you.
    If you modified you handgun, if you loaded your own ammo, used various levels of non lethal defense or went right to lethal force it doesn't matter.

    If you tell the investigating LEO that you modified you handgun to have better sights on it to improve you head shot accuracy in low light on the range for a competition with your friends. Chances are they will focus on the fact that you modified your handgun to make head shots in low light and the DA can then very simply bring up statistics of how many people die from being shot in the head and go on to demonstrate, by your own admission, that you modified your handgun to better make "kill shots" with. In today's world of sheep, CSI and Law & Order junkies who are going to want the dramatics of TV in the court room, what do you really think they will hear and retain?

    If you do "plead the 5th" and ask for an attorney, then you have a better chance of not sticking your own foot in your mouth by talking about how you reload, the types of sights you have, how often you go to the range, that you even have a computer with or with out an internet connection, or anything else you have going on in your life.

    With Mr. Fish it isn't so much that he had a 10mm, that he shot the guy, or anything like that. It is that he made inconsistent statements to the investigating LEOs which he talked to for hours without an attorney.

    I have great respect for LEOs and the job they do, but understand, they are trained interrogators and have numerous resources at their finger tips to do that job such as lying to the suspect...most of us are not trained in those techniques or tactics or even how to stand up to seveal hours of simple questions.
    In Mr. Fish's situation, talking to the investigating LEOs without an attorney was like bringing a potato peeler to a gun fight.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

  11. #56
    Member Array basher052's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    What you need to understand is that issues like this don't come up in a void.

    The weapon or the ammo is a tertiary concern, if that. It only comes up when things go very wrong in the "before" and "after" phases of a confrontation.

    Before:
    You didn't deescalate or didn't try very hard.
    You didn't leave when you had an opportunity.
    You got out of your car when you didn't have to.
    You had a history with the deceased, and it's not a good one.

    After:
    You tried to make a canned speech to the police, but they got you talking.
    You consented to a search in writing (OH, you didn't know they shove that in with the hospital admission papers...yeah. Sorry...)
    A witness will tell them what he saw...and will be 100% honest...but wrong.
    You spoke openly & honestly with the police and made contradictory statements over the course of a 6 hour interrogation...

    At that point, with so many screwups, yeah, the weapon, ammo and oddities come into play - but even then, it's too late because it's no longer a primary factor.

    Most of the cases you mentioned could have been solved by securing weapons not in use, shutting up and lawyering up.

    Train more.
    Worry about weapon mods less.
    Dude, like the scene from My Cousin Vinny...."I WANT HIM!". Very well stated.
    Andy
    You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas - David Crockett
    When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

  12. #57
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamakennedy View Post

    If you tell the investigating LEO that you modified you handgun
    You would do this...why?

    What is the enthrallment with suicide? I mean, really.

    Last time I was at a PD the detective tried to do the body language matching thing with me while trying to get me to give up my client.

    Sharp guys...but I know when hot chicks & cops (who weren't hot chicks...) want something from me.

  13. #58
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    You would do this...why?

    What is the enthrallment with suicide? I mean, really.

    Last time I was at a PD the detective tried to do the body language matching thing with me while trying to get me to give up my client.

    Sharp guys...but I know when hot chicks & cops (who weren't hot chicks...) want something from me.
    who would do that? Someone probably would. There are many people in this country that still don't see the harm in blurting out everything on their mind cause they think since they did nothing wrong that the justice system will let them go.

    You can go to jail on an unintended confession. Thats why its best to keep mouth shut.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  14. #59
    VIP Member Array Rob99VMI04's Avatar
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    "F you and your high powered rifle!" The Gary Fadden incident - The Ayoob files | American Handgunner | Find Articles at BNET

    Here was a total good shoot, yet the shooter based on the firearm he used to defend himself almost was in a big pickle.
    “Are you a thermometer or a thermostat, do you reflect or become what is happening in the room or do you change the atmosphere, reset the temperature when you come into the room”?--Chuck Swindoll

    Its not about guns...Its about Freedom!

  15. #60
    Ex Member Array scotthsi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    You want a PDF of my JD degree or one of my admission to the office of Commissioner of the Superior Court of the State of Connecticut?
    Yeah, I got one of those too...yeah, that's the ticket...

    Let it go, dude...let it go...as per the moderator, if you missed that...

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