This is a discussion on Rendering aid within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There may be times when you would be wise to leave the scene, such as the BG has buddies coming or amassing into a hostile ...
December 13th, 2009 07:16 PM
There may be times when you would be wise to leave the scene, such as the BG has buddies coming or amassing into a hostile crowd. Also if you or one of yours needs immediate medical help, you may be the one that needs to get them to a hospital ASAP. Nowdays, wvwn here in small town America, the EMTs wait up unbtil the LEOs have secured the area from threats. 30 to 40 minutes is common before EMT is allowed in.
December 13th, 2009 07:20 PM
I agree to a degree.
Originally Posted by Jim Macklin
As I said, "Get away to safety." That could be across the room, across the street or across three city blocks. The priority to getting to safety.
If you were forced to shoot someone entering your home you could cover him from a distant doorway and wait for police to arrive.
However, if you were forced to shoot one in a group of ten as you fled in an alley-way you're safest retreat may not be for several blocks. You are, in fact, leaving the scene, but it would be ridiculous for you to stay when it would only keep you in danger.
Fleeing does not automatically equal guilt provided the flight was necessary for your survival.
December 13th, 2009 07:36 PM
If you're surrounded by hostile people, leaving might be necessary. But if you can, while talking to 911, advise them you must leave or else you might be forced to shoot somebody else, it isn't safe. Stay in contact with 911 [speakerphone or headset if you've got one].
Originally Posted by limatunes
But if you leave and come back and they have started looking for "the shooter" you will be thought guilty.
That need to stand your ground is one reason I carry several reloads, so I can stay. I'll take pictures and talk on my phone [and 911 records all calls]. If I have to leave for my safety, I'll say so and tell the 911 operator where I'm going and why. Maybe a that will work out OK. But if you leave the first reports on the scene will be those hostile people you were afraid of.
The People Think the Constitution Protects Their Rights;
Government See IT as an Obstacle to be Over-come.
December 13th, 2009 07:54 PM
NO, I just escalated to deadly force to stop an attack that "I believed" would cause myself or one I have chosen to defend grievous bodily harm!
1. Get myself and/or my charges to immediate cover/safety.
2. 360 scan while reloading.
3. call 911
Who is John Galt?
Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...
When political power is up for grabs, personal liberty is usually one of the first casualties…
December 13th, 2009 07:57 PM
I agree with the general tenor but would like to make a point from a different perspective. Each person has a right to their own approach, so YMMV.
My goal in an armed encounter isn't to kill anyone. It's to end their ability to do harm to myself or others. If that takes lethal force then it takes lethal force, and mentally and psychologically I think that I am okay with that. (never happened to me before so I hesitate to be dogmatic) If that ends with them having significant wounds that are not fatal, I see my responsibilities in this order:
1. Make sure me and my loved ones are in a safe place and not subject to any further attack.
2. Make sure that 911 is being called and the police and an ambulance are on the way.
3. Make sure any other people are okay, i.e. no victims of the perp or whatever.
If all of that gets done, and then there is still time and inclination to render emergency assistance, then I suppose I would like to say that I would. However, because of #1 and the situation at hand I think that I would not feel like this person is safe for me to approach and so in reality I don't think that I would end up doing anything but securing my family and waiting for the ambulance.
December 13th, 2009 08:26 PM
Yup, that's what I would do, too - nothing more, nothing less.
Originally Posted by Thumper
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein
December 13th, 2009 08:43 PM
I'm an EMT and I would not attempt to render aid to a BG who I have shot for a number of reasons, most of which have been stated upthread.
1. My interest was in stopping the BG and I have done so.
2. I want to remain alert and aware of my surroundings. There may be friends or accomplices of the BG present or arriving.and I don't want to expose myself to them.
3. I want to call 911 or preferanbly have someone else do it since I don't want my statements recorded without my attorney present.
4. I want to insure that the BG's weapon is outside their area of accessability and I want to be able to prevent someone else from accessing it.
5. I don't want to be accused of killing or further harming the BG with improper medical attention.
For those of you who are not medical professionals, please remember that the Good Samaritan laws are different in every state, but in general you are only covered if rendering aid that you are trained and qualified to provide. That means if you have a First Aid Certification and your card expired last month, you may be SOL for Good Samaritan protection. Here's a great specific example - if you're in NJ and use an AED and you don't have a current AED Certification, you're breaking the law.
Secure the scene and your safety, have 911 called, change to a full magazine or cylinder if necessary, holster your gun but be prepared to draw if needed and do your best to have it holstered when the LEO's arrive. Don't disturb evidence. Only move the BG's weapon if they can reach it and if you have to move it, kick it where it's easier for you to control from a position of safety.
December 13th, 2009 08:46 PM
NO WAY !..............Stay Safe
December 13th, 2009 08:47 PM
The perp was a threat once (enough so that you deemed necessary to shoot him), even down, the perp is STILL a threat! I am NOT a trained professional! The extent of me rendering aid would be to call the professionals at 911, keep them on the phone (set the phone down if necessary, but keep the line open), while keeping the perp at gun point from a safe distance.
Much has to do with the location, ie. your living room, or out of your realm in a unknown / bad part of town ... makes a big difference.
Ya'll haven't watched enough movies. You know that after pumping 5 rounds COM & going down motionless, that 2 minutes later when you turn your back, hell be standing behind you with an axe raised above his head ready to strike.
Gun Free Zones are totally effective, and 100% safe ... (wait for it) ... (wait for it) ... until a bad guy with a gun shows up! Then suddenly, you have an uncontested Kill Zone of defensless sheep, patiently awaiting their turn for the slaughter.
December 13th, 2009 08:56 PM
We were instructed in both inside and outside the home post HCP defense classes not to render aid or even converse with the perp.
Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
Richard M Nixon
Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician.”
December 13th, 2009 09:26 PM
I would not render aid. If this guy's the least bit capable of grabbing either your weapon or your throat, he's probably gonna do it. And another bad idea IMO is to hold him at bay with your barrel touching him. If he knows where it is, he has a better chance of taking it from you. I agree with most of the posts here that say to get help for him on the phone, secure the scene and all of the weapons involved.
Vietnam Vets, WELCOME HOME
Crossman 760 BB/Pellet, Daisy Red Ryder, Crossman Wrist Rocket, 14 Steak Knives, 3 Fillet Knives, Rolling Pin-14", Various Hunting Knives, 2 Baseball Bats, 3 Big Dogs and a big American Flag flying in the yard. I have no firearms; Try the next house.
December 13th, 2009 09:37 PM
Consider what you just said here.
Originally Posted by Kenny256
Your intend is not to kill, your intent is to stop the threat to you and your loved ones.
December 13th, 2009 09:39 PM
GKNOLA said it best. Remember no statements to the police at all. Invoke your right to an attorney and seal your lips.
December 13th, 2009 09:44 PM
Don't do it.
Never attempt to render medical aid to a downed deadly threat.
Immediately render your cell phone instead and call 911.
Are you a licensed physician or a Paramedic?
If the answer is "No" then don't touch the bad guy.
For all of the above reasons and also if the BG expires on you his family will sue you for "finishing him off."
December 13th, 2009 09:53 PM
call 911..there has been a shooting and a man needs an ambulance...his condition from where i stand is blah blah blah...i am armed and wearing blah blah blah...i will retain my handgun and a safe distance until i am instructed by police on site...please hurry...
did you shoot the man?...
i will be willing to make a statement after consulting my attorney...please hurry...
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