Rendering aid - Page 3

Rendering aid

This is a discussion on Rendering aid within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; There may be times when you would be wise to leave the scene, such as the BG has buddies coming or amassing into a hostile ...

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Thread: Rendering aid

  1. #31
    Member Array Geno's Avatar
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    There may be times when you would be wise to leave the scene, such as the BG has buddies coming or amassing into a hostile crowd. Also if you or one of yours needs immediate medical help, you may be the one that needs to get them to a hospital ASAP. Nowdays, wvwn here in small town America, the EMTs wait up unbtil the LEOs have secured the area from threats. 30 to 40 minutes is common before EMT is allowed in.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Macklin View Post
    DO NOT leave the scene, but secure yourself at the scene. Leaving the scene id fleeing, flight equals guilt.

    Don't "hover" over the body. But don't go far, just get cover by the nearest mail box, parked car, street light post, but stay there.
    I agree to a degree.

    As I said, "Get away to safety." That could be across the room, across the street or across three city blocks. The priority to getting to safety.

    If you were forced to shoot someone entering your home you could cover him from a distant doorway and wait for police to arrive.

    However, if you were forced to shoot one in a group of ten as you fled in an alley-way you're safest retreat may not be for several blocks. You are, in fact, leaving the scene, but it would be ridiculous for you to stay when it would only keep you in danger.

    Fleeing does not automatically equal guilt provided the flight was necessary for your survival.

  3. #33
    Member Array Jim Macklin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    I agree to a degree.

    As I said, "Get away to safety." That could be across the room, across the street or across three city blocks. The priority to getting to safety.

    If you were forced to shoot someone entering your home you could cover him from a distant doorway and wait for police to arrive.

    However, if you were forced to shoot one in a group of ten as you fled in an alley-way you're safest retreat may not be for several blocks. You are, in fact, leaving the scene, but it would be ridiculous for you to stay when it would only keep you in danger.

    Fleeing does not automatically equal guilt provided the flight was necessary for your survival.
    If you're surrounded by hostile people, leaving might be necessary. But if you can, while talking to 911, advise them you must leave or else you might be forced to shoot somebody else, it isn't safe. Stay in contact with 911 [speakerphone or headset if you've got one].
    But if you leave and come back and they have started looking for "the shooter" you will be thought guilty.
    That need to stand your ground is one reason I carry several reloads, so I can stay. I'll take pictures and talk on my phone [and 911 records all calls]. If I have to leave for my safety, I'll say so and tell the 911 operator where I'm going and why. Maybe a that will work out OK. But if you leave the first reports on the scene will be those hostile people you were afraid of.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
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    NO, I just escalated to deadly force to stop an attack that "I believed" would cause myself or one I have chosen to defend grievous bodily harm!
    1. Get myself and/or my charges to immediate cover/safety.
    2. 360 scan while reloading.
    3. call 911
    Who is John Galt?

    Sometimes there's justice, sometimes there's just us...

  5. #35
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    I agree with the general tenor but would like to make a point from a different perspective. Each person has a right to their own approach, so YMMV.

    My goal in an armed encounter isn't to kill anyone. It's to end their ability to do harm to myself or others. If that takes lethal force then it takes lethal force, and mentally and psychologically I think that I am okay with that. (never happened to me before so I hesitate to be dogmatic) If that ends with them having significant wounds that are not fatal, I see my responsibilities in this order:
    1. Make sure me and my loved ones are in a safe place and not subject to any further attack.
    2. Make sure that 911 is being called and the police and an ambulance are on the way.
    3. Make sure any other people are okay, i.e. no victims of the perp or whatever.

    If all of that gets done, and then there is still time and inclination to render emergency assistance, then I suppose I would like to say that I would. However, because of #1 and the situation at hand I think that I would not feel like this person is safe for me to approach and so in reality I don't think that I would end up doing anything but securing my family and waiting for the ambulance.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Yeah, I'd render aid... "Hello, 911? There's a guy here who looks like he's been shot!"
    Yup, that's what I would do, too - nothing more, nothing less.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  7. #37
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    I'm an EMT and I would not attempt to render aid to a BG who I have shot for a number of reasons, most of which have been stated upthread.

    1. My interest was in stopping the BG and I have done so.
    2. I want to remain alert and aware of my surroundings. There may be friends or accomplices of the BG present or arriving.and I don't want to expose myself to them.
    3. I want to call 911 or preferanbly have someone else do it since I don't want my statements recorded without my attorney present.
    4. I want to insure that the BG's weapon is outside their area of accessability and I want to be able to prevent someone else from accessing it.
    5. I don't want to be accused of killing or further harming the BG with improper medical attention.

    For those of you who are not medical professionals, please remember that the Good Samaritan laws are different in every state, but in general you are only covered if rendering aid that you are trained and qualified to provide. That means if you have a First Aid Certification and your card expired last month, you may be SOL for Good Samaritan protection. Here's a great specific example - if you're in NJ and use an AED and you don't have a current AED Certification, you're breaking the law.

    Secure the scene and your safety, have 911 called, change to a full magazine or cylinder if necessary, holster your gun but be prepared to draw if needed and do your best to have it holstered when the LEO's arrive. Don't disturb evidence. Only move the BG's weapon if they can reach it and if you have to move it, kick it where it's easier for you to control from a position of safety.

  8. #38
    Member Array Fan45acp's Avatar
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    NO WAY !..............Stay Safe

  9. #39
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    The perp was a threat once (enough so that you deemed necessary to shoot him), even down, the perp is STILL a threat! I am NOT a trained professional! The extent of me rendering aid would be to call the professionals at 911, keep them on the phone (set the phone down if necessary, but keep the line open), while keeping the perp at gun point from a safe distance.

    Much has to do with the location, ie. your living room, or out of your realm in a unknown / bad part of town ... makes a big difference.

    Ya'll haven't watched enough movies. You know that after pumping 5 rounds COM & going down motionless, that 2 minutes later when you turn your back, hell be standing behind you with an axe raised above his head ready to strike.
    Asked by a CNN reporter "What do you feel when you shoot a terrorist"?, the Marine sniper simply shrugged & replied "recoil".

    Now more than ever, we are at war on our home soil ... WAKE UP & arm our troops when they are on home soil!

  10. #40
    Senior Member Array Bubbiesdad's Avatar
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    We were instructed in both inside and outside the home post HCP defense classes not to render aid or even converse with the perp.
    Always remember that others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself.
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  11. #41
    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    I would not render aid. If this guy's the least bit capable of grabbing either your weapon or your throat, he's probably gonna do it. And another bad idea IMO is to hold him at bay with your barrel touching him. If he knows where it is, he has a better chance of taking it from you. I agree with most of the posts here that say to get help for him on the phone, secure the scene and all of the weapons involved.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny256 View Post
    I would not give AID period.

    I just shot the person, My intent was to kill. I think helping after the fact just makes you look guilty.

    Call 911 and let it be.
    Consider what you just said here.

    Your intend is not to kill, your intent is to stop the threat to you and your loved ones.

  13. #43
    Member Array mel5051's Avatar
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    GKNOLA said it best. Remember no statements to the police at all. Invoke your right to an attorney and seal your lips.

  14. #44
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    Don't do it.
    Never attempt to render medical aid to a downed deadly threat.
    Immediately render your cell phone instead and call 911.
    Are you a licensed physician or a Paramedic?
    If the answer is "No" then don't touch the bad guy.
    For all of the above reasons and also if the BG expires on you his family will sue you for "finishing him off."

  15. #45
    Distinguished Member Array bladenbullet's Avatar
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    call 911..there has been a shooting and a man needs an ambulance...his condition from where i stand is blah blah blah...i am armed and wearing blah blah blah...i will retain my handgun and a safe distance until i am instructed by police on site...please hurry...

    did you shoot the man?...

    i will be willing to make a statement after consulting my attorney...please hurry...

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