CCW,,,,,,,,California

This is a discussion on CCW,,,,,,,,California within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Today, after a year of pursuit and frustration, I finally got my CCW from our Sheriff's Dept. Like many California counties, ours has both a ...

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Thread: CCW,,,,,,,,California

  1. #1
    New Member Array JMMMD's Avatar
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    CCW,,,,,,,,California

    Today, after a year of pursuit and frustration, I finally got my CCW from our Sheriff's Dept. Like many California counties, ours has both a sheriff's and police dept. The attitude towards CCW from these two organizations couldnt be more polar.

    In compliance with the police dept.'s application requirements, I took a 2 day approved CCW training program, qualified with my 2 handguns (both were field stripped and trigger tested) at their range shooting 10 consecutive rounds at 25 yards into a 10" circle (any miss or edge = start over), took both a written and oral department psychology test (same testing to get into the PD), submitted Lifescan fingerprints to DOJ, and finally interviewed with their CCW officer. This took the best part of 4 months. 2 months letter I recieved a letter of denial which stated that I hadn't demonstrated "good cause" for the issuance. They offered an appeal interview which was granted 2 months later. To this day, I never recieved a decision from that 2nd interview.

    At both the first and second interview, I offered dramatic and verifiable "good cause" for my CCW. Given the public nature of this forum, I cant get very specific. Suffice it to say, I offered the business phone and private cell phone numbers of several FBI agents for whom I was acting as a confidential informant.

    At the suggestion of the people at Firearms Training Institute (FTI), I contacted the Sheriff's Dept. They accepted copies of all the same documents I submitted to the PD. Instead of a one person interviewer, I appeared in front of a cordial and professional committee of 3 officers. Their questions were appropriate, precise, and incisive. Whatever decision they might reach, I left satisfied that I had been treated fairly. In 2 weeks they called and told me that Id have to redo my fingerprints. 4 weeks later, it was a done deal. They had the identical data as the PD. (In their normal course of CCW licensing they wouldnt require the psych test and their shooting qualifier is NOT done at 25 yards. Isnt that WAY out of civilian CCW range????)

    Was the time, $$$, effort worth it? If it saves my life, YES. Otherwise this was a ridiculous run around.

    JMMMD

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  3. #2
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    Array CopperKnight's Avatar
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    Congratulations on the permit.

    Runaround? yes. Necessary? no. Why do you have to prove you are in danger? Look at the daily newspapers with the robberies, assaults, rapes, shootings, homicides... c'mon! isn't that enough in general to say your life is endangered just by living in the area?

    Sorry 'bout that rant. I'm with you. Glad you could git 'er done.
    eschew obfuscation

    The only thing that stops bad guys with guns is good guys with guns. SgtD

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    Welcome

    Indeed all those hoops and hurdles are ridiculous. No matter what you or any of us does re work or life in general - we are all equally justified in wishing to have a means of defence of self.

    Crap happens anytime any place, tho some more than others. Anyways, glad you have achieved success even if a long and hard road.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

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    Member Array mcclearypl's Avatar
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    The more I hear about California the more I am glad I have never been to the place. The only places I have ever heard of daily drive by shootings is California. The only place I have ever heard a police officer say they were afraid to go in to an area is California. California
    is one of the few states that think only the bad guys should have guns. Sounds to me like all the gun owners in California need to vote out all the trash you have in government and get some new people on board. There is no way this should be allowed.
    Philip L. McCleary
    Security via CCW
    and a lot of practice
    Dispatchers have the best jobs
    we tell the police where to go and they have
    to do it. Policy manual says so.

    de N4LNE

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    Senior Member Array Rugerman's Avatar
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    WOW. Welcome and congrats. I recently got my CCW in California but didn't have to go through anything like you did. Our sheriff is awesome. It took me about 1 month from start to finish. Glad you got it though and it is worth every bit of trouble and every hoop you had to jump through. We qualified 10 rounds at 10yds in 10 seconds, then 10 rounds at 25 yds in 10 seconds and then 10 rounds at 30 yards in 10 seconds. People go crazy when you put a time limit on them. 10 seconds is a long time to fire ten off. Anyways Welcome from another Californian.
    George Washington: "A free people ought to be armed."

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array Macattack's Avatar
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    wow one good thing about washington is you pay 60 bucks, fill out a application, get fingerprinted, wait a month and you're good. I suppose thats a good thing...........
    Congrats on the monumental effort.
    "In those days, there was a lot more respect for other people and it showed in peoples values.... Today the word value means nothing more than something you get on the $1 menu at McDonald's." -BARK'N

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    New Member Array CaliforniaCCW's Avatar
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    There is hope!

    It is wrong that they made you go through so many hoops to get it. It should be shall-issue.

    We have a new site which is dedicated basically towards electing better sheriffs, disclosing what the policies really are, and learning about the laws and how to go through the process:

    CaliforniaCCW.org

    Please pop over there and post some of the info on your experience. We have quite a few users from Riverside, with on in particular who has actually gotten CCW there by suing them.

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    Member Array calireserve's Avatar
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    Congrats Jmmmd!!! It is good to know there are a few other people in California with a CCW. I hope you never need your weapon but I am glad you are able to defend yourself should the need arise!!!

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    10 consecutive rounds at 25 yards into a 10" circle (any miss or edge = start over)
    I guess that makes you a better shot then me. I could do it, but it might take a while.

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    Thumbs up Jmmmd

    Interesting. Thanks For Posting.
    A Hearty Congratulations...You sure have earned it.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    you think it's tough in CA, you should try it in NY. bottom line, a civilian is never gonna get a CCW permit in NY. in PA, however, it's as easy as getting a building permit.

  13. #12
    New Member Array JMMMD's Avatar
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    The political side of this,,,,,,,,,

    Thank you all for your support and encouragement. By way of follow up I'd like to explain the politics of this. Because of previous CCW litigation in California, there are two different rules of engagement in play here. The police departments work under a "shall issue" rule unless they can articulate a reason not to. It's left entirely up to them as to what constitutes "good cause". Packing.Org and other organizations provide wonderfully stated templates based on what statements of fact have been previously used effectively to assist in an applicants written good cause statement. Unfortunately, I wasn't allowed to make a WRITTEN good cause statement to the PD !! Our PD's policy is that THEIR officer writes the applicant's good cause statement following the oral personal interview!!! The applicant does not get a copy of it and never knows how fairly or not it represents the applicants relevant history. (The application package is standardized statewide with a page provided for the applicant to write his good cause essay.)

    On the other hand, the sheriff's operate under a "may issue" policy. Because its entirely at their discretion, they aren't subject to lawsuit as police depts. are. In my successful experience, their decision came down to character and a clean background. Instead of engaging in sophomoric argument about leaving personal protection to professionals, the sheriff's interview I had was more along the lines of inquiry as to whether or not I really wanted to do this. (Constitutional 2A arguments are inappropriate to street cops.)

    I find it odd that a shall issue type policy works harshly against applicants as compared to may issue. This is more proof that Shakespeare had it right re lawyers.

  14. #13
    Member Array DParker's Avatar
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    We need CCW reform in CA. It is a hodgpodge of vastly different processes dependant on each particular sheriff or police chief. We took a four hour course with a very "casual" range experience...no percise target/distance/time requirements. Wife and I spent 30 minutes at sheriff dept. getting fingerprinted, tested, (easy multiple choice) etc., and had our permits in 8 days.

    Not sure what you mean about "shall issue" police dept. vs. "may issue" sheriff dept. due to litigation. The significant litigations I have read about have been directed at sheriff policy/practice. Most police depts defer to the county sheriff for issue anyway.

    In any case, congratulations for surviving the process and achieving the permit!

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    Distinguished Member Array BCurry1's Avatar
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    Congrats on the CCW. Glad to have you out there. 25 yards in a 10 inch circle, WOW, thats alot for a CCW. We just have to hit the paper at 3 and 5 yards. Again congrats on sticking through it.
    Curry

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    Member Array BlackSS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DParker
    We need CCW reform in CA. It is a hodgpodge of vastly different processes dependant on each particular sheriff or police chief. We took a four hour course with a very "casual" range experience...no percise target/distance/time requirements. Wife and I spent 30 minutes at sheriff dept. getting fingerprinted, tested, (easy multiple choice) etc., and had our permits in 8 days.

    Not sure what you mean about "shall issue" police dept. vs. "may issue" sheriff dept. due to litigation. The significant litigations I have read about have been directed at sheriff policy/practice. Most police depts defer to the county sheriff for issue anyway.

    In any case, congratulations for surviving the process and achieving the permit!
    I agree and with so many aggravated assaults, home-invasions, and gang-related drivebys, we have every right to protect ourselves from harmful scenarios.

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