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Best and worst of state laws

11K views 99 replies 65 participants last post by  Tubby45 
#1 ·
(If this question has been asked and answered in an old thread, maybe somebody could point me to it, but otherwise - )

I'd be interested to hear from you guys on two things:

What do you dislike the most about your own state's handgun legislation, and how you would change it, and;

What do you think your state does right on that same topic?

Six
 
#2 ·
Since your first question is two questions I'll separate them.

1st Q: That there is any idea that restrictive handgun legislation is needed in the first place.

2nd Q: Abolish current laws and adopt Vermont's. And install a law that everyone must be armed unless they object for whatever reason they can think up.

3rd Q: Nothing I can identify at the moment.

Tired of nit picking through laws intended to be oppressive to all people that aren't "the only ones" allowed to be armed.

Most people seem to agree to restrictive gun laws that they themselves have already qualified for so they become someone who is willing to dis-arm others. They become... "the only ones" allowed to be armed. "People like me are OK... but not THOSE people".

Whole lotta infringin' goin on these days...
 
#30 ·
Since your first question is two questions I'll separate them.
Bingo (except CommonMan101's #3)

1st Q: That restrictive handgun legislation exist.

2nd Q: Abolish the current laws and adopt Alaska's free-carry w/ a permit being available for reciprocity and adopt Vermont's very limited situs for yes-but-not-here w/ the requirement that all situs locations must provide a lock-box security process so you can be armed right up to the point of "no carry here" and your gun will be securely protected until you want it back as you leave the restricted area.
....

Tired of nit picking through laws intended to be oppressive to all people that aren't "the only ones" allowed to be armed.

Most people seem to agree to restrictive gun laws that they themselves have already qualified for so they become someone who is willing to dis-arm others. They become... "the only ones" allowed to be armed. "People like me are OK... but not THOSE people".

Whole lotta infringin' goin on these days...
3rd Q: I like Virginia's:

1) "If-you-can-posses-it, (under federal law)-you-can-OC-it" w/ no additional State restrictions on ownership, registration, etc.

2) very workable must-issue CHP w/ a reasonable time limit to issue.

3) good Statewide firearm preemption, albeit I wish reimbursement of legal cost were minatory
 
#3 ·
the not carrying in a bar or bar area of a restaurant bothers me...if youre that irresponsible you cant control yourself you shouldnt be allowed to carry period...not that i would want more restrictions but wouldnt it be easier to say no alcoholic consumption while carrying and i could have a soda with some friends like i do anyway when i'm riding or driving?...

not being able to carry in a police station or post office...i dont get it personally...if i was there to shoot someone i would probably carry in anyway...but weve been there...
 
#4 ·
I'm in CA. Before I start, is there a limit on the length of a post in these threads? Just checking before I might crash the forums...

Seriously:

1 - Change CCW from arbitrary "may issue" to "shall issue" so it's a level playing field and not political football.

2 - Either get rid of the mandatory 10-day wait for new firearm purchases. At least make that only for the first firearm purchase, with subsequent purchases either immediate or next day delivery, with immediate delivery for CCW holders since they've already gone through the background checks.

3 - Can we please join the rest of the free world and start using regular capacity magazines instead of these neutered wonders? Granted, our fully loaded pistols weigh less but that means very little if you're in a fight for your life.

4 - Bullet buttons are a joke. So are "listed" lowers. If the CA Dept. of Justice hadn't politicized the legislation by playing games, CA's gun laws might not receive the amount of ridicule they do. But then, CA's legislative majority has had its collective head up its backside so long that it thinks its dysfunctional ways are actually normal.

5 - Is it 1,000 feet or now 1,500 feet "gun-free" zone around schools? It's going to be interesting how long this law lasts. CA has played the same distance game with sex offenders, effectively banishing them from some cities entirely. Apparently some are taking CA to court over this. (While I don't offer any sympathy to sex offenders or minimize the risk to society, the means by which CA tries to minimize that risk is legally questionable. CA has used that same tactic against gun owners too.)

What I would really like is a Constitutional amendment in CA making the author, co-signers and all affirming legislators legally liable for legal costs when their legislation is found to be legally defective and/or unconstitutional. Make those legislators have to pay the legal fees out of their own re-election coffers. If they are no longer available, take those funds from their political party's election funds. Maybe that will make them think twice about the flood of "feel-good" legislation they pass that immediately gets stopped by the courts. A federal example is the 1998 Child Protection Act passed and signed by Clinton. It sounded so great, made wonderful PR but was obviously unconstitutional. Never got out of the starting gate. Why should the taxpayers continue to pay for this defective lawmaking? The ones behind these bad laws are guilty of legislative malpractice, and should repay the citizens for their incompetence.
 
#5 ·
To me, CCW laws are mainly one of the 101 things to do until the revolution (Clair Wolfe). That is, they make it legal for now (for the "right" people) to carry and protect themselves. But make no mistake, CCW laws are a major infringement of our right to keep and bear arms. At some point the government will move to confiscate all our weapons, and all this will become clear. They will use the CCW rolls to know where to get some of the weapons. Hopefully by then a lot of idiots will wake up and understand TYRANNY, finally. Or maybe not.
 
#6 ·
Few things I would change about Tennessee:

1. No permit required for open carry or car carry.
2. Allow us into restaraunts that serve alcohol. (We could, for a few days, until that :censored: judge....) :grrr:

Of course, I'd rather have Alaska's style of gun law if that were an option, and allow anyone who legally owns a weapon to carry it however they want, but with an option to acquire a permit so you can have out of state reciprocity. The way we're going, that may happen.
 
#7 ·
Yes, I agree about California gun laws. They suck.
I am originally from California, but Never plan to move back.
I like having my Concealed Pistol License; AKA CCW.
I used to own a security company in California(PPO#11821) in the early 90's,
and provided Executive protection,and even after going to the appeals board,
was still denied a concealed weapons permit.
Even with my extensive Training, etc.
I had to use all the Gray areas of the Law, to get by, using my exposed weapons permit.
Again, if your not a cop,or celebrity, or can afford to sue the city of L.A.
which is very expensive to do every two years, your not going to get one.
So, good rid-dens California, I value my life and safety more, then it's laws allow.

Steve....
 
#8 ·
I would have to agree with everyone about being allowed to carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol, but on the flipside if it was passed and you were caught consuming while carrying immediate felony.

We had an instance in Fayetteville many years ago where a guy flipped out and went into a local italian restaurant and shot the owner, owners wife, and a few other people including a guy that jumped in front of his young son. He used a shotgun only and had to reload in the middle of his rampage which would have been an opportunity for an armed citizen to end the whole rampage. Perfect example of the need for it beign allowed.
 
#10 · (Edited)
We pretty much have it made with gun laws here in FL. The 'being unarmed in the bar part of a restaurant' but being able to have a beer a few seats away while armed...what's that? Someone was smokin' sommin' when they designed that law, but I'll take it anyway:bier:...I don't do bars. We can carry just about everywhere, banks, and churches, etc.
No signs, or they mean nothing is great.:hand10:
I don't care about OC, so the CC laws are fine with me. An accidental flash of the firearm because of the wind is not going to get me arrested.:22a:

I also like the Castle Doctrine....but...
I wouldn't change anything except for the ability to protect property, as the Texans are allowed to do.:yup:

Gotta' love the GunShine State...:danceban::danceban::danceban:
 
#12 ·
I'm in NM.

I'd like my CCW to allow me to carry in establishments that serve alcohol for consumption on premises. Not because I drink, but because at present it's hard to take my family to dinner at family restaurants (e.g. Applebee's, Olive Garden, Red Robin...).

I'd also like a strong castle doctrine statue and supporting case law.
 
#13 ·
Castle doctrine would be nice. I'm sure we'll see it eventually. Our permits are called LTCFs. Something is wrong when you need permission to exercise a right that is enumerated in not only the U.S. Constitution but our state constitution as well. Other than that, I have no real complaints about PA's restrictions as we have almost none.
 
#38 ·
I have no idea where you heard this, but.....you're wrong. Utah has Castle Doctrine. No duty to retreat.


To the OP:

I am happy with Utah's gun laws for the most part, we have:

-OC without a permit....empty chamber
-CC is shall issue
-CC includes ALL weapons, and ANY firearm you can legally posses
-Castle Doctrine
-OC/CC in State buildings, City buildings, Police stations
-OC/CC in schools
-OC/CC in bars, restaurants that serve alcohol
-No gun signs don't matter
-State preemption
-No waiting period for purchase
-No purchase permit
-No limit on purchases
-No capacity limitations


I don't like that Churches can register with the state to be "no-weapons areas". Only the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) has registered, but any can.

I don't like that employers aren't forced to let employees CC. But at least they are forced to let them have it in their vehicle in the parking lot.

That's all I can think of now, I'll probably edit later:yup:
 
#15 ·
Best things about CO gun laws are (a) no restrictions on carry in alcohol-serving venues, so we can go to any restaurant, (b) unlicensed carry in vehicles of loaded handgun is explicitly allowed by statute for any legal gun owner.

Downers are (a) Denver prohibits open carry which is legal in the rest of the state with no permit necessary, and (b) in 2007 a democrat-controlled state government stopped recognition of nonrez licenses issued by reciprocal states.
 
#17 ·
If we could get the Castle Doctrine out of committee it would be good. And reinstate the "stand your ground" clause in it.

Can't CC in banks, restaurants with alcohol, anywhere admission is charged, funeral processions?, parades, picking up or dropping off the kids at school. Start by changing those.

And someone needs to sue Cary to get OC on public property back.

What do I like, OC on person and in a car without a permit. But you still need a pistol purchase permit to get a handgun so even that's not perfect.

I used to think the laws were pretty good. After reading about other states, I have changed my mind.
 
#18 ·
There are quite a few things I dislike about Nebraska's gun laws.

I absolutely hate that we have no statewide firearm pre-emption, except for concealed hanguns that stay concealed, for permit holders. The cities are still walking all over the permit holders anyway, ignoring the pre-emption (Omaha's gun registration, for instance).
The runners up would have to be no ccw signage standards (class 3, and if you still have a permit, class 1 misdemeanor for failing to see a sign) and no castle law. You have to retreat out of your freaking house here. Total BS.

My ideal changes would be complete firearm pre-emption, signage standards, and of course, not having to retreat from your home anymore.

As for what Nebraska does right...well we can open carry here, technically.... and we can carry in restaurants the serve alcohol.
 
#24 ·
You don't have to retreat from your home in Nebraska. (Retreat is required before using deadly force,yes.... however your home and place of work are exempted from the retreat requirement). Your dwelling is your home.

NE Statute:

Section 28-1409
Use of force in self-protection.
(1) Subject to the provisions of this section and of section 28-1414, the use of force upon or toward another person is justifiable when the actor believes that such force is immediately necessary for the purpose of protecting himself against the use of unlawful force by such other person on the present occasion.
(2) The use of such force is not justifiable under this section to resist an arrest which the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, although the arrest is unlawful.
(3) The use of such force is not justifiable under this section to resist force used by the occupier or possessor of property or by another person on his behalf, where the actor knows that the person using
the force is doing so under a claim of right to protect the property, except that this limitation shall not apply if:
(a) The actor is a public officer acting in the performance of his duties or a person lawfully assisting him therein or a person making or assisting in a lawful arrest;
(b) The actor has been unlawfully dispossessed of the property and is making a reentry or recapture justified by section 28-1411; or
(c) The actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm.
(4) The use of deadly force shall not be justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily harm, kidnapping or sexual
intercourse compelled by force or threat, nor is it justifiable if:
(a) The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or
(b) The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:
(i) The actor shall not be obliged to retreat from his dwelling or place of work, unless he was the initial aggressor or is assailed in his place of work by another person whose place of work the actor knows it to be; and

(ii) A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an
escape shall not be obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.
(5) Except as required by subsections (3) and (4) of this section, a person employing protective force may estimate the necessity thereof under the circumstances as he believes them to be when the
force is used, without retreating, surrendering possession, doing any other act which he has no legal duty to do, or abstaining from any lawful action.
(6) The justification afforded by this section extends to the use of confinement as protective force only if the actor takes all reasonable measures to terminate the confinement as soon as he knows that he
safely can do so, unless the person confined has been arrested on a charge of crime.

Source:
Laws 1972, LB 895, § 4
R.R.S.1943, § 28-836, (1975)


This law has been this way since 1972!!! :smile:
 
#19 ·
Wow, where does one start? I lived in California for 50 Years. Hated all their gun laws. Moved to Texas, loved their gun laws. If I had any wish, it would be everyone adopt Vermont laws.
 
#23 ·
I'm in CA. Before I start, is there a limit on the length of a post in these threads? Just checking before I might crash the forums...
Rivers
^^^^^^^^^^^
It would have been less time consuming if you had just posted the Kali gun don'ts website.!!

I also like the Castle Doctrine....but...
I wouldn't change anything except for the ability to protect property, as the Texans are allowed to do.
ret sup99

YEP!!^^^^^^
Michigans not perfect, but it seems better that a lot.


To me, CCW laws are mainly one of the 101 things to do until the revolution (Clair Wolfe). That is, they make it legal for now (for the "right" people) to carry and protect themselves. But make no mistake, CCW laws are a major infringement of our right to keep and bear arms. At some point the government will move to confiscate all our weapons, and all this will become clear. They will use the CCW rolls to know where to get some of the weapons. Hopefully by then a lot of idiots will wake up and understand TYRANNY, finally. Or maybe not.
freedom doc

I've often wondered myself about how this would ultimatly be an EXCELLENT starting point for the goose stepping jack-boots,
Some people call me loony , BUT, certain things point in the direction of the coming of AMERIKA! Just Sayin


If there is to be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.
Thomas Paine
 
#27 ·
Michigan law is mostly O.K. but I'd like to see either the elimination of any gun free zones or at least require that a gun free zone must have a metal detector/search for entry.

Currently target rich zones in MI are: Schools, Hospitals, events larger than 2500people, <51% bars and casinos.

In general, I'm a little torn on the whole should there even be a CPL thing. from my pragmatic side, I'm happy that there's a hurdle for folks who want to CC to go over - providing even a small obstacle like that will keep those not serious enough about it out.

From my philosophical side, the registration and the restrictions sure do seem unconstitutional.
 
#28 ·
NO reciprocal agreements with states a b and c. YOUR STATE LTC covers ALL 50. OR just get rid of the LTC all together and adopt an alaska or vermont style carry law.

NO waiting period for purchases, background check and leave with your firearm(s).

Adopt castle doctrine in all 50 states.

NO ammo or capacity restrictions.

Simple and to the point I think.

AS far as on the state level for PA - OPEN carry can NOT be a reason for an encounter like the MPOETC states and the 45 day period for an LTCF should be reduced to either a WEEK or IMMEDIATE ISSUE after the background check.
~Steve
 
#31 ·
Overall, I don't think Michigan's laws are too bad. I can carry in 99% of the places I frequent on a daily basis.

How I would change it?

Get rid of ALL gun free zones, because I don't think I'm safe anywhere I go. That's not to say I'm worried all the time, but I subscribe to the philosophy of anyone, anywhere, anytime.
 
#32 ·
The main thing I hate is not having a national license - would save a lot of hassle when traveling.

For my state of West Virginia I hated that I had to go through a $75.00 handgun course, I qualified with pistols in the Marine Corps and with the Department of State (who I currently work for in Iraq) have gone through Blackwater's (now known as Xe - yes them) High Threat Protection course and Combat Handgun Course but WV does not feel that those courses make me qualified to carry - go figure
 
#70 ·
No Way!!




Why Do you guys so desperately WANT a national reciprocity license???
I have a Michigan Drivers license, and it allows me to drive in ALL 50 states if I choose to.
Even Canada, home of the sheeple lets me drive there with my Mi. license when I go there for work.

Why would I want the feds having ANYTHING to do with this is beyond me!!, I'm just sayin


"An Englishman is a person who does things because they have been done before. An American is a person who does things because they haven't been done before." - Mark Twain
 
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