Need a little help from the Texans

This is a discussion on Need a little help from the Texans within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Does the presence of this sign in the hospital entryway oblige me to disarm?...

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Thread: Need a little help from the Texans

  1. #1
    Member Array Wes Kenney's Avatar
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    Need a little help from the Texans

    Does the presence of this sign in the hospital entryway oblige me to disarm?

    He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

    - Luke 22:36 (ESV)

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array SIGguy229's Avatar
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    Does it meet the requirements of the TX statute? From what I recall, the TX statute (IIRC, 30.06) is very specific in terms of signage and that if the signage is NOT exactly as spelled out in 30.06, the sign is invalid. However, I do not know if hospitals are already designated a "gun-free" zone.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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    Member Array i10casual's Avatar
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    Yeah but I bet they will be harder on ya for the no smoking part. :)

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    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    Deleted...never mind.
    Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
    who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.

  6. #5
    Member Array Wes Kenney's Avatar
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    The intent is certainly clear, and I did disarm. But as I understand it, the sign doesn't meet the legal requirements SigGuy alluded to above, and as such, I think the sign is not valid. I'm hoping some Texans will stop by and verify.
    He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

    - Luke 22:36 (ESV)

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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    NO IT IS NOT A LEGAL SIGN,below is
    In order to provide notice that entry on property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden, Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(A) requires that a written communication contain the following language:

    "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

    "CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."
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    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Senior Member Array Grant48's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Kenney View Post
    Does the presence of this sign in the hospital entryway oblige me to disarm?
    No. The reference to V.C.S. (Vernon's Civil Statutes) is outdated, therefore not legally enforceable.

    In order for a sign to be legally enforceable, it must read exactly as specified by current law.

    "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/forms/cr-1.pdf

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    Not a legal sign. You have not been given effective notice under the statues according to that particular sign
    "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." -Suzanna Gratia Hupp

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    VIP Member Array rodc13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    NO IT IS NOT A LEGAL SIGN,below is
    In order to provide notice that entry on property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden, Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(A) requires that a written communication contain the following language:

    "PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

    "CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."
    Precisely correct. Only the 30.06 or 51% signs have any validity in Texas.
    Cheers,
    Rod
    "We're paratroopers. We're supposed to be surrounded!" Dick Winters

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    Member Array xrmeav8r's Avatar
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    Do you have to pay to get out of the building?

  12. #11
    Member Array Wes Kenney's Avatar
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    No, but you do have to pay to get out of the parking lot. I think that's why the reference to a cashier is there.
    He said to them, "But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one."

    - Luke 22:36 (ESV)

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Isn't it a hospital?

    I may be reading this wrong but...

    PENAL CODE** CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS

    Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
    Gun must be concealed at all times.

    (b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:
    Concealed or not, it's illegal when:

    ....(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;....
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

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    Member Array JJVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    Isn't it a hospital?

    I may be reading this wrong but...

    PENAL CODE** CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS



    Gun must be concealed at all times.



    Concealed or not, it's illegal when:
    Yes you are reading it wrong. You stopped reading too early. If you continue reading you will find this:

    "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06."

    He has to be given notice as per 30.06. The sign posted does not meet the requirements of 30.06 as shown by other posters. Therefore, it is LEGAL for him to carry in the hospital. He can be asked to leave and he has to comply or he will be charged with trespassing. But unless he is asked to disarm or leave, he is in the clear. Stopping after reading (b)(4) is a very common mistake, even by CHL's here in TX.

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    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJVP View Post
    Yes you are reading it wrong. You stopped reading too early. If you continue reading you will find this:

    "(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06."

    He has to be given notice as per 30.06. The sign posted does not meet the requirements of 30.06 as shown by other posters. Therefore, it is LEGAL for him to carry in the hospital. He can be asked to leave and he has to comply or he will be charged with trespassing. But unless he is asked to disarm or leave, he is in the clear. Stopping after reading (b)(4) is a very common mistake, even by CHL's here in TX.
    Ah. Thanks. I didn't see it hiding down there. I thought the section was finished at (h).
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  16. #15
    KaH
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    It is not a legal sign as it does not meet 30.06 requirements for a valid sign to restrict carry of concealed handguns.
    I would carry there anyway. That's just me, though.

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