Driving Through Illinois

This is a discussion on Driving Through Illinois within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by TN_Mike Simple solution: Don't drive through Illinois. Drive around it. Don't go into Illinois, don't spend any money there, do use their ...

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Thread: Driving Through Illinois

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Simple solution: Don't drive through Illinois. Drive around it. Don't go into Illinois, don't spend any money there, do use their roads, don't give their corrupt state police any chance to pull you over and confiscate your gun.

    Don't do business with any business or state that denies it's citizens their God given right of self defense!
    Don't drive through if you can easily avoid it.

    If you need to, obey FOPA. If they violate FOPA, destroy careers, finances and lives. It's your patriotic duty.

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  3. #17
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adkjoe View Post
    He asked if he could look in the truck and I told him that was fine and that there was a rifle in a case back there.
    NEVER, EVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH BY POLICE, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!

    If he had RAS or PC, he wouldn't NEED to ask.

    "I do not consent to any searches."
    "Am I free to leave?"
    "No? Then I have nothing further to say without a lawyer present."

    Consenting to police searches is like needle sharing, accepting an unknown pill from a stranger at a party, or having unprotected sex with random strangers. The potential benefits are few and ephemeral. The potential downsides are infinite and sometimes of a permanent nature.

    Just say no to consensual searches.

  4. #18
    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    "I believe that there was a recent court case in IL that was won... determining that the center console in a vehicle constitutes a "case". "
    "Which a recent IL Supreme Court ruling states that lockable center concolse is the same as a case."

    Guys, don't be giving legal advice if you don't understand the ruling and from the quoted above you don't understand the ruling. All you'll do is get someone jammed up with the law, charged and possibly convicted a felony. Do you really want that on your conscience?
    The recent IL SC ruling did not rule the center console as a "case". It ruled it as a "container". Completely different legal terms. The ruling applied only to the Unlawful Use of a Weapon statute, nothing more. The ruling only clarified the definition of "container" and only as it applied to UUW. The word "container" had been in the UUW statute since the law has been in effect. The ruling does not change anything requiring the firearm to be in a case. Even if transported in a console it still has to be in a firearm case which is defined by statute.
    IL has a Cased Gun statute, which is a separate statute from the UUW, which requires the firearm to be in a case. Case is not the same as container in the UUW statute. The ILSC ruling has no bearing on the Cased Gun statute. The definition of a case is set by statute: "a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device which completely encloses such gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed." Nothing requires the firearm to be locked in the case. The case has to have some method of closure as defined above.
    All the ILSC ruling did was address UUW statute. That was the only issue before the court. A person would not be charged with UUW but they could still be charged with an uncased gun.

    RXtion gave a good explanation, as long as the firearm is properly cased as defined above and not just laying in a console or glovebox uncased.
    IL law only requires the gun has to be unloaded and in a case which is defined above. The unloaded, cased gun does not have to be inaccessible to the occupants but it is recommended as that is part of FOPA. IL law does not require it tho.
    The ammo does not have to be separate from the gun and can be in same case as the gun as long as it is not inserted in the gun. Mags can be loaded but loaded mags cannot be inserted in the gun. Empty mags can be in the gun. Ammo does not have to be in any case. No restrictions on where the ammo can be carried as long as none is in the gun.
    There are some municipalities which have ordinances more restrictive than state law. If a person is traveling as defined by FOPA then they would be in compliance with federal law which trumps local ordinances and the local ordinances would not apply.
    183 FBINA

  5. #19
    Senior Member Array Adkjoe's Avatar
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    Deanimator I agree 100% but in my defense I was tired I wanted to be on my way home and I had nothing to hide This was quite a while ago when I was in my early 20's and I learned my lesson. Carrying a .22 rifle is legal in all states as long as it's properly stowed away and it was so I knew I had nothing to fear. I should have said no but I just wanted to make it easy and be on my way, I had been on the road over a month. IL is a nazi gun state and I have since avoided it at all costs.
    Vermont does not issue Permit/Licenses to Carry a Concealed firearm. Vermont allows anyone
    who can legally own a firearm to carry it concealed without a permit of any kind.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    ISPCAPT, Thanks for the informative post. I had been wondering about that court case and what it really meant.

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Simple solution: Don't drive through Illinois. Drive around it. Don't go into Illinois, don't spend any money there, do use their roads, don't give their corrupt state police any chance to pull you over and confiscate your gun.

    Don't do business with any business or state that denies it's citizens their God given right of self defense!
    Not really a practical solution for those of us who have family there.
    "I'm a big, hairy, American winning machine!" - Ricky Bobby

  8. #22
    Member Array Bowhunter200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goab View Post
    No,
    the law states according to their own pamplet that the firearm needs to be:
    1. Enclosed in a case and,
    2. Unloaded and,
    3. Not easily accessible.

    The pamplet also says you can put the ammo in the case with the gun.
    Not easily accessible, to me means, locked. Which a recent IL Supreme Court ruling states that lockable center concolse is the same as a case.

    Here's what I do and it seems to be fine.
    Put unload pistol, put pistol and shells in the case, its a plastic case so I lock it with one of those cable locks and put the cable around the post of my passenger front seat of my work van.

    check these links:
    Firearm Owner's Frequently Asked Questions
    or
    The law from their website. See Article 24
    or the brochure: http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/9-049.pdf
    Correct me if I am wrong, the center console doesn't have to be lockable to be legal.

  9. #23
    Senior Member Array MR D's Avatar
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    ISPCAPT - thank you so much for the explanation and clarification! Kinda nice to get reliable information - especially when it is from a source so close to the 'action'

    Your explanation clarifies some questions that I had and actually demonstrates that it is a little easier to stay on the right side of the law in IL when transiting.

    P.S. Thank you for your service

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastDraw View Post
    Good Morning Ret.....

    When you say you drive around IL what route are you taking.... assuming your destination is somewhere west of IL...
    IL

    We were in MI and traveling to MO, then south to FL...made a longer vacation leaving MI and headed around IL...

    When traveling (by air) to see our grandchildren, we even avoid Chicago and fly to either Detroit or Grand Rapids to avoid IL...especially Chicago.
    I rather drive 3 hours from Detroit armed, than 1.5 hours from Chicago, but that's just me.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hidden View Post
    Not really a practical solution for those of us who have family there.
    True...but then you are already aware of the problems and accept the rules of IL. Hard to avoid family, but it just makes SD very difficult.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  12. #26
    Member Array moparoutlaw's Avatar
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    ISPCAPT makes and interesting point. Even though the opinion of the Il Supreme Court states,

    THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS, Appellant, v.
    MICHAEL DIGGINS, Appellee.
    Opinion filed October 8, 2009.
    JUSTICE BURKE delivered the judgment of the court, with
    opinion.
    Chief Justice Fitzgerald and Justices Freeman, Thomas, Kilbride,
    Garman, and Karmeier concurred in the judgment and opinion.
    OPINION
    Section 24–1.6(c)(iii) of the Criminal Code of 1961 provides that
    a person is not guilty of aggravated unlawful use of a weapon if that
    weapon is “unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box,
    shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a
    currently valid Firearm Owner’s Identification Card.” 720 ILCS
    5/24–1.6(c)(iii) (West 2006). In the case at bar, we are asked to
    determine whether the center console of a vehicle is a “case” within
    the meaning of this provision. For the reasons that follow, we
    conclude that it is.

    The IL wildlife code DOES in fact have a more explicit definition of "case", opening up a person to a misdemeanor charge of uncased weapon.

    A question for ISPCAPT, do you think that there will be court action in IL to reconcile these two seemingly opposing ideas? There is so much going on in IL regarding gun issues, it's nice to have an "inside" opinion to count on. Thanks ISPCAPT for your service to the people of Illinois and to the members of this board.

  13. #27
    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moparoutlaw View Post
    A question for ISPCAPT, do you think that there will be court action in IL to reconcile these two seemingly opposing ideas?
    Nope, not at all for a couple of reasons.
    The Diggins case really didn't change anything. The "container" wording in the UUW statute has been there for decades. In Diggins there was a prosecutor who was trying to make a point and didn't do a very good job of it at the trial. If you look at the case you'll see that at no time did he make any attempt to introduce the statutory definition of "case" as the Case Gun statute was not an issue. He argued only that he didn't not feel console and container as mentioned in the UUW statute were the same. Pretty lame argument and he didn't do his homework. He was grasping at straws and didn't do a very good job of presenting his case. For decades a lot of state's attorneys have not charged carrying in the console with UUW if the only element missing was the gun case because of "container" being mentioned and because the cased gun statute was clearly more defined and more appropriate charge. Most state's attorneys wouldn't try to stretch it. Many of the state's attorneys and AG who were watching the case prior to the ruling were of the opinion it was a poorly handled case from the prosecutor's point. If the state's attorney wanted to go with an uncased gun charge, which would have been a much better section given the circumstances of Diggins and much easier to prove, then he should have charged with the cased gun section. But he didn't. If the prosecutor doesn't bring it up in his arguments then the court cannot consider it.
    Good prosecutors are hard to find. They are usually young, inexperienced, not too long out of law school, no trial experience going up against seasoned, experienced attorneys, and trying to get some experience before going to private firms for better pay and a whole lot better cases. They'll make some real boneheaded decisions and screw up cases that should have been pop flies. I could not begin to count the number of cases where I held the hand of some young asst state's attorney during trial who didn't have a clue about prosecuting a case. I always figured if I could get them thru a trial without them peeing down their pants leg or embarrassing me and themselves then it was a successful trial. The verdict was immaterial.
    There really is nothing to reconcile between the UUW and the Cased Gun statute. They're no different than 1000s of other statutes. It's sort of like the DUI statute and the open alcohol statute. While they're both alcohol related statutes the elements of the crimes are completely different in that you can be in violation of one and not the other or in violation of both. Just depends on each given situation. In this situation what the statutes define is either an unlawful use of a weapon charge or uncased gun. 2 separate violations. A person could be in violation of the UUW but comply with the cased gun statute or a person could be in violation of the cased gun statute and be in complete compliance with the UUW statute or a person could be in violation of both. Just depends on each specific incident. Another example is like in a murder case where only 1 person is killed but the subject is charged with 7 different counts of murder. Each statute has different elements. Some may be easier for the prosecutor to present, some more complicated. It's why just reading a single statute and thinking a person is good to go may not always be the case. Sort of like the DUI/open container. I've heard a lot say "I'm not drunk so you can't charge me." Oops! Maybe not under the influence but still can't have the open beer. 2 different violations.

    Thanks ISPCAPT for your service to the people of Illinois and to the members of this board.
    Thanks to you and Mr D.
    183 FBINA

  14. #28
    Member Array moparoutlaw's Avatar
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    Have a lot firmer understanding of these issues now. And as I look back on all of the hoopla going on in the IL based forums and pro gun sites, I'm left wondering why they feel that the "console issue" was such a great victory for IL gun rights??

    I'd much rather see the pro gun IL groups put steady rational pressure onto the CCW issue here in our great state...

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Just traveled through IL today. I live in Lafayette, TN and son lives in St. Louis. To go to Memphis and up to St. Louis on the other side of the Mississippi River takes me another 4-5 hours of driving, turning a 6 1/2 hour one day trip into a two day trip with a motel bill for this old geezer. (I go to sleep after 8 hours of driving) I put unloaded gun in COM safe in trunk, ammo in glove compartment just before crossing KY line and get it back out in MO. No, I don't like it, but it is the law and I comply. You never know what law is in effect in which county and this way I am covered.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  16. #30
    Member Array ispcapt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moparoutlaw View Post
    I'd much rather see the pro gun IL groups put steady rational pressure onto the CCW issue here in our great state...
    Me too.
    183 FBINA

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