Can i Carry a Black Powder Revolver in SC without a permit???

This is a discussion on Can i Carry a Black Powder Revolver in SC without a permit??? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; so ive looked over the laws of SC...and BP pistols do not meet the definition of a handgun and the permit system is for handguns..... ...

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Thread: Can i Carry a Black Powder Revolver in SC without a permit???

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    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Can i Carry a Black Powder Revolver in SC without a permit???

    so ive looked over the laws of SC...and BP pistols do not meet the definition of a handgun and the permit system is for handguns..... so can i carry one concealed? or no since its a weapon then i can carry openly????

    HANDGUNS

    SECTION 16-23-10. Definitions.

    When used in this article:

    (1) “Handgun” means any firearm designed to expel a projectile and designed to be fired from the hand, but shall not include any firearm generally recognized or classified as an antique, curiosity, or collector’s item, or any that does not fire fixed cartridges.

    (2) “Dealer” means any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at retail or any person who is a pawnbroker.

    (3) “Crime of violence” means murder, manslaughter (except negligent manslaughter arising out of traffic accidents), rape, mayhem, kidnapping, burglary, robbery, housebreaking, assault with intent to kill, commit rape, or rob, assault with a dangerous weapon, or assault with intent to commit any offense punishable by imprisonment for more than one year.

    (4) “Fugitive from justice” means any person who has fled from or is fleeing from any law enforcement officer to avoid prosecution or imprisonment for a crime of violence.

    (5) “Subversive organization” means any group, committee, club, league, society, association, or combination of individuals the purpose of which, or one of the purposes of which, is the establishment, control, conduct, seizure, or overthrow of the government of the United States or any state or political subdivision thereof, by the use of force, violence, espionage, sabotage, or threats or attempts of any of the foregoing.

    (6) “Conviction”‘ as used herein shall include pleas of guilty, pleas of nolo contendere, and forfeiture of bail.

    (7) “Division” means the State Law Enforcement Division.

    (8) “Purchase” or “sell” means to knowingly buy, offer to buy, receive, lease, rent, barter, exchange, pawn or accept in pawn.

    (9) “Person” means any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.

    (10) “Luggage compartment” means the trunk of a motor vehicle which has a trunk; however, with respect to a motor vehicle which does not have a trunk, the term “luggage compartment” refers to the area of the motor vehicle in which the manufacturer designed that luggage be carried or to the area of the motor vehicle in which luggage is customarily carried. In a station wagon, van, hatchback vehicle, or sport utility vehicle, the term “luggage compartment” refers to the area behind, but not under, the rearmost seat. In a truck, the term “ luggage compartment” refers to the area behind the rearmost seat, but not under the front seat.

    SECTION 16-23-20. Unlawful carrying of handgun; exceptions.

    It is unlawful for anyone to carry about the person any handgun, whether concealed or not, except as follows, unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law:

    (1) regular, salaried law enforcement officers, and reserve police officers of a state agency, municipality, or county of the State, uncompensated Governor’s constables, law enforcement officers of the federal government or other states when they are carrying out official duties while in this State, deputy enforcement officers of the Natural Resources Enforcement Division of the Department of Natural Resources, and retired commissioned law enforcement officers employed as private detectives or private investigators;

    (2) members of the Armed Forces of the United States, the National Guard, organized reserves, or the State Militia when on duty;

    (3) members, or their invited guests, of organizations authorized by law to purchase or receive firearms from the United States or this State or regularly enrolled members, or their invited guests, of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting or collecting modern and antique firearms while these members, or their invited guests, are at or going to or from their places of target practice or their shows and exhibits;

    (4) licensed hunters or fishermen who are engaged in hunting or fishing or going to or from their places of hunting or fishing while in a vehicle or on foot;

    (5) a person regularly engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, repossessing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of this person, while possessing, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of the business;

    (6) guards authorized by law to possess handguns and engaged in protection of property of the United States or any agency of the United States;

    (7) members of authorized military or civil organizations while parading or when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations;

    (8) a person in his home or upon his real property or a person who has the permission of the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of the home or real property;

    (9) a person in a vehicle if the handgun is secured in a closed glove compartment, closed console, closed trunk, or in a closed container secured by an integral fastener and transported in the luggage compartment of the vehicle; however, this item is not violated if the glove compartment, console, or trunk is opened in the presence of a law enforcement officer for the sole purpose of retrieving a driver’s license, registration, or proof of insurance;

    (10) a person carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or fixed place of business or while in the process of changing or moving one’s residence or changing or moving one’s fixed place of business;

    (11) a prison guard while engaged in his official duties;

    (12) a person who is granted a permit under provision of law by the State Law Enforcement Division to carry a handgun about his person, under conditions set forth in the permit, and while transferring the handgun between the permittee’s person and a location specified in item (9);

    (13) the owner or the person in legal possession or the person in legal control of a fixed place of business, while at the fixed place of business, and the employee of a fixed place of business, other than a business subject to Section 16-23-465, while at the place of business; however, the employee may exercise this privilege only after: (a) acquiring a permit pursuant to item (12), and (b) obtaining the permission of the owner or person in legal control or legal possession of the premises;

    (14) a person engaged in firearms related activities while on the premises of a fixed place of business which conducts, as a regular course of its business, activities related to sale, repair, pawn, firearms training, or use of firearms, unless the premises is posted with a sign limiting possession of firearms to holders of permits issued pursuant to item (12);

    (15) a person while transferring a handgun directly from or to a vehicle and a location specified in this section where one may legally possess the handgun.

    (16) Any person on a motorcycle when the pistol is secured in a closed saddlebag or other similar closed accessory container attached, whether permanently or temporarily, to the motorcycle.



    So a BP pistol isnt a handgun and therefore you dont need a permit to carry one???target target
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    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    With all due respect to you thread/comments I assume you are presenting a scholarly debate and do not intend to OC with a BP revolver sitting on your hip as you walk down the street or CC without a CCWP. IMO you are walking a very thin line that will not be received very well by probably most LEOs. You may be right (I am no expert) but right is only part of the equation when you are presenting a firearm OC or are found to be CC without a permit. Isn't it easier to just be prudent and not "push the envelope" for no good reason, when competent firearms are available and a CCWP is no big deal to obtain?

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    Senior Member Array gdm320's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    With all due respect to you thread/comments I assume you are presenting a scholarly debate and do not intend to OC with a BP revolver sitting on your hip as you walk down the street or CC without a CCWP. IMO you are walking a very thin line that will not be received very well by probably most LEOs. You may be right (I am no expert) but right is only part of the equation when you are presenting a firearm OC or are found to be CC without a permit. Isn't it easier to just be prudent and not "push the envelope" for no good reason, when competent firearms are available and a CCWP is no big deal to obtain?
    I agree completely.

    This is guaranteed to be way, way, way more trouble than it is worth. I doubt very seriously that you're going to be able to whip out that section of SC law when a cop has you in his bracelets and he'll let you go with a wink and a smile.

    Did you read all the pertinent sections of South Carolina law regarding antique firearms? You might find something barring the use there. You'd also be wise to research case law because the law may well have been interpreted differently by the courts than is written if somebody already decided to be "clever" like this.
    "Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death." -- General Omar Bradley

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    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    Maybe it IS a "big deal" for him to obtain. He might not be able to get a CWP for one reason or another. The question sounds like he's trying to skirt the law. My advice is get the permit and do it right. Don't give the other LEGAL carriers a black eye. OTOH, go ahead - you'll only do it a short time, then we won't have to worry about you - can't carry AT ALL in prison.

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    The only reason that part of the sentence exists is cause black powder pistols don't need an FFL to be sold. many don't even have a serial number. Many are also replica or handmade. How can you regulate that?

    I agree with kelcarry to a LEO if it looks like a gun then its a gun, they aren't going to analyze your sidearm to see if it takes cartridges or if its a black powder or muzzle loader. You would be arrested for carrying unlawfully regardless of what the law "says". Though the charges MAY be thrown out eventually are you ready to take that risk? Are you ready to potentially give up any future CCW permits? Are you ready to potentially go to jail for taking the law so literally?

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    "so can i carry one concealed?"

    Looks like you would still be guilty of at least a misdemeanor.
    "and must be fined not less than two hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not less than thirty days nor more than ninety days."

    So....if not more than five hundred dollars and not more than 90 days in the pokey sounds good to you.........



    SECTION 16-23-460. Carrying concealed weapons; forfeiture of weapons.

    (A) A person carrying a deadly weapon usually used for the infliction of personal injury concealed about his person is guilty of a misdemeanor, must forfeit to the county, or, if convicted in a municipal court, to the municipality, the concealed weapon, and must be fined not less than two hundred dollars nor more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned not less than thirty days nor more than ninety days.


    SECTION 16-23-405. Definition of "weapon"; confiscation and disposition of weapons used in commission or in furtherance of crime.

    (A) Except for the provisions relating to rifles and shotguns in Section 16-23-460, as used in this chapter, "weapon" means firearm (rifle, shotgun, pistol, or similar device that propels a projectile through the energy of an explosive), a blackjack, a metal pipe or pole, or any other type of device, or object which may be used to inflict bodily injury or death.

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    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    OP has been on this forum for a year and a half with nearly 600 posts. That seems like a long time to be discussing CC if he can't obtain a permit.
    If it's for legal reasons, I seriously doubt the court will find his loop-hole adequate.
    If he's the no-paper-trail type (meaning, all his firearms are purchased from individuals so there's no record that he even owns firearms) the question may just be an extension of his distrust of government.
    Then too, a gung-ho DA will find a way to make him look like he had ill intent.

    A side note: A friend of mine lost his job last year when a new company took over the contract from my previous employer. Something he did 14 years ago, which he "did his time" for popped up on his background check.
    Just married with a new baby, he was trying to make something of his life.
    But policy is policy and they canned him.
    Things you do when you're young can stay with you forever.

    If such is the case here, I'd recommend pepper spray.
    The views expressed above are the opinion of the poster and may or may not be total bunk.
    Viewer discretion is advised.

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    Member Array ibesarcasm's Avatar
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    I might be missing the point..... but this really is Defensive Carry....is it not?
    So why would anyone even THINK about carrying a BP pistol for a carry weapon?? If you ever wanted to skirt the law....I'd rather have a knife than a BP pistol..... seriously, I mean WTH?
    The only reason I could think of to carry a BP pistol open, is to "ps" off the locals & police, and to concealed carry a BP is.....well, just silly.......
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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    With all due respect to you thread/comments I assume you are presenting a scholarly debate and do not intend to OC with a BP revolver sitting on your hip as you walk down the street or CC without a CCWP. IMO you are walking a very thin line that will not be received very well by probably most LEOs. You may be right (I am no expert) but right is only part of the equation when you are presenting a firearm OC or are found to be CC without a permit. Isn't it easier to just be prudent and not "push the envelope" for no good reason, when competent firearms are available and a CCWP is no big deal to obtain?

    I’ll have to agree.

    Skirting the law, at the very least will get you a court date.

    If you’ve never been to court, or charged with an offence, you should know that unlike the way our constitution reads, (innocent until proven guilty) you will be booked, finger printed, and held in jail, until bail can be posted.

    Bail means you’ll pay at least 10% of the bail to bail bondsman. More if you’ve been in trouble before.

    Oh ya… Did I mention attorney fees?

    A good friend of mine is a criminal defense attorney.

    His retainer to attend your bail hearing is $5000... and that’s for a misdemeanor, or felony.

    From there his fees go up and up and up.

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    It may not be considered a handgun but that doesn't mean it isn't considered a weapon.
    Either you are a weapon and your gun is a tool or your gun is a weapon and you are the tool.
    ----- FMD

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    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    With all due respect to you thread/comments I assume you are presenting a scholarly debate and do not intend to OC with a BP revolver sitting on your hip as you walk down the street or CC without a CCWP. IMO you are walking a very thin line that will not be received very well by probably most LEOs. You may be right (I am no expert) but right is only part of the equation when you are presenting a firearm OC or are found to be CC without a permit. Isn't it easier to just be prudent and not "push the envelope" for no good reason, when competent firearms are available and a CCWP is no big deal to obtain?


    i can never obtain a permit to carry in SC not unless i move to SC or unless i move to say florida which SC honors as they dont honor non resident permits....i have a ga permit
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmodel65 View Post
    i can never obtain a permit to carry in SC not unless i move to SC or unless i move to say florida which SC honors as they dont honor non resident permits....i have a ga permit
    If you do not have a permit that allows you to legally carry in SC then do not do it.

    With all due respect to your comments; I believe that if someone thinks he/she is so smart that he/she can get away with something like that then that person deserves all the trouble it is asking for. I am not a lawyer and I do not intend to play one, but I do not consider that trying to skirt the law, fool the LEOs and fool the court is a very good idea. Did you ever consider the consequences of doing something like that if your theory does not work? Furthermore, you should also destroy for all CCW’ers that legally carry every day.
    By the way, how can someone even consider OC or CC a BP pistol for SD?
    Last edited by GM; December 30th, 2009 at 11:42 PM.
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    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GM View Post
    If you do not have a permit that allow you to legally carry in SC then do not do it.

    With all due respect to you comments; I believe that if someone thinks he/she is so smart that he/she can get away with something like that then that person deserves all the trouble it is asking for. I am not a lawyer and I do not intend to play one, but I do not consider that trying to skirt the law, fool the LEOs and fool the court is a very good idea. Did you ever consider the consequences of doing something like that if your theory does not work? Furthermore, you should also destroy for all CCW’ers that legally carry every day.
    By the way, how can someone even consider OC or CC a BP pistol for SD?


    get away with what its not getting away with something if its legal
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    The member may only be asking the question as a hypothetical so let's not make it personal.

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    Senior Member Array rmodel65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    The member may only be asking the question as a hypothetical so let's not make it personal.


    thank you i hardly ever go to SC just normally Florida because im so close.... but this is interesting question i know in a lot of states vlack powder arent gun like maryland can you carry a BP pistol in maryland with no license?
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