Define concealed carry?

This is a discussion on Define concealed carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by mikcap "Review your state's laws on brandishing, threatening behavior, causing fear/disruption, and recent cases in the past 5yrs of law enforcement's behavior ...

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Thread: Define concealed carry?

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikcap View Post
    "Review your state's laws on brandishing, threatening behavior, causing fear/disruption, and recent cases in the past 5yrs of law enforcement's behavior with respect to calls for "man with a gun" situations by fearful people who want you controlled. Then you'll know how close to that ideal you need to be."

    This is a great idea. I have to figure out how to search it. I'm in CT. Any ideas?
    You need to find the specific statutes for your state. They're published. You can find them in the library. You ought to be able to find them online, via the internet, though reviewing with your attorney can help greatly. Keep in mind that the firearms-related statutes aren't the only ones that can trip you up, here.

    You can start with the HandgunLaw.us web site. From there, follow the links and references to your state's web sites.
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Divebum47's Avatar
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    Don't want to be harsh, but better harsh and learn a lesson, than arrested and learn the same lesson. It boils down to:

    1) Change your attitude. You should care.
    2) Concealed means concealed. No partially concealed, not printing, not showing the barrel sticking out of the bottom of your jacket or shirt, not showing the butt pushing out the back of your shirt. It means concealed so that no one knows you are carrying.

    The reasons for number two are way too many to list, but will vary from state to state and jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

    Those of us who have a concealed carry permit and do carry are held to a little higher standard of responsibility - right or wrong, that's just the way it is.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

  4. #18
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    From the Oklahoma Selfdefense Act:

    1. Concealed handgun means a loaded or unloaded pistol carried hidden
    from the detection and view of another person either upon or about the
    person, in a purse or other container belonging to the person, or in a
    vehicle which is operated by the person or in which the person is riding
    as a passenger;

  5. #19
    Member Array roalho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikcap View Post
    "Review your state's laws on brandishing, threatening behavior, causing fear/disruption, and recent cases in the past 5yrs of law enforcement's behavior with respect to calls for "man with a gun" situations by fearful people who want you controlled. Then you'll know how close to that ideal you need to be."

    This is a great idea. I have to figure out how to search it. I'm in CT. Any ideas?

    Here in CT it's not a "conceal" permit, it's a permit to carry pistols and revolvers.

    HOWEVER...

    The strong consensus is we carry concealed. Why? Lot's of scaredy people here. All it takes for them to be able to take away your permit is someone complaining about your gun. Once they take your permit, it can become a lengthy process to get it back, currently about a 3 year backlog of cases, last I heard.

    I'm looking for a particular case about a guy who accidentally exposed some of his sidearm while waiting in the "take out" area of a restaurant. The scaredy person running the till saw it, screamed bloody murder, police were called, he was handled roughly, and I believe he's still trying to get his permit back. All he did was bend over to pick something up.

    In CT, carry concealed!

  6. #20
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    My Florida view: Concealed means, by Fl. definition, "concealed from ordinary sight."

    To me that means no part of the gun "exposed" to the eye, no grip, no barrel, no holster. It means nothing about printing, which I carry little about.

    I see what could be misinterpreted as a weapon all the time, realizing it's only a cell phone strapped on a belt holster. Why am I unconcerned about "printing"? Because my weapon is legally carried, and I think if BGs notice it, they'lll probably look for an easier victim. I certainly wouldn't start trouble with an armed individual. They'll avoid me, which is all I'm asking for.

    I don't feel I need to "hide" anything, only to cover. I am legal, even if printing.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array kahrcarrier's Avatar
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    I have a lump under my shirt if you look very closely when I carry.

    Could be a gun, could be anything. Nobody notices anyway, and if they did, no big deal to me. I can open carry if I want, or anything in between in Indiana.

    I don't open carry, however.


    Illinois?

    Hmmm. This is a rather esoteric posting from someone in a State that treats gun owners like lepers............

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsunsr View Post
    I've been on several handgun forums and read lots of discussion on how best to conceal your handgun. I'm confused. A lot of emphasis on not imprinting etc. What do I care? If I have a concealed carry permit and I have a jacket or sweater or fanny pack covering the weapon, what do I care if it imprints? What do I care if a LEO can tell I'm carrying? ...
    You should care; I really mean well when I say that if you carry a firearm and you do not change attitude concerning this topic you might get in trouble. The first thing that the instructor told me was “CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED”. A firearm or weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby. If you have a CCW permit it means that you are allowed to carry a concealed weapon (different states have different regulations about what you are allowed to carry or not); not all states allow open carry, some states do not require a carry permit at all, and in some states printing or accidental printing is not illegal. I totally conceal my firearm and I do not want the bad guys or anyone else knows that I am carrying. Furthermore, there is a social aspect to consider: some unarmed citizens might be afraid of firearms, and for other people carrying a firearm is not political correct - not to mention what anti-gunners think about it (imagine if your boss at work is an anti-gunner). To make it short, I believe that showing that you carry might also backfire on you if people are not used to that; open carry has many pros but also many cons. Good luck with your research!
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    The term is "printing", not "imprinting".

    "What do I care" were your words, I believe. You care because, if you want to carry concealed and continue to carry concealed, but must follow the law. I suggest you check the handgun and concealed carry laws in YOUR state.

    Concealed means concealed. In some states, you are not allowed to show the outline of the gun under your cover garment. In SC, it's ok "as long as it is not readily recognizable as a gun". And "as long as an effort is being made to conceal". SC is a little more lax than many states on this. Some states do not allow ANY outline - recognizable or not.

    Some states DO allow open carry, and that's a whole different set of rules from concealed carry.

    If you want to carry concealed - carry legally. Observe the laws concerning concealed carry and obey the rules. If you don't - the consequences may be fines, jail time, and/or loss of your concealed carry permit. Your concealed carry permit does not allow you to break the rules and flaunt the law, and it won't save you if you do.

    Lastly, away from the legalities - when carrying concealed, your best weapon/tactical advantage is the element of surprise. You lose that when printing.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    ... Lastly, away from the legalities - when carrying concealed, your best weapon/tactical advantage is the element of surprise. You lose that when printing.
    AMEN!!!
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  11. #25
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Even if I were OC in public I would still have a conceal carry as BUG. If CC is printing you are in danger of a gun grab, even if BG does not know it is a gun, he might think it is cell phone then make a grab. There are a lot of tactical reasons to not print. If you have any LEO friends or relatives ask them if they conceal and why.
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    Lastly, away from the legalities - when carrying concealed, your best weapon/tactical advantage is the element of surprise. You lose that when printing.
    Keltyke has this right. There are other reasons for concealing your weapon that have been mentioned here but foremost in my mind is maintaining the element of surprise. Exposing your weapon or otherwise revealing the fact that you carry one serves no purpose, at least with regard to self defense.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    Truly...it depends on the law of the state....and the interpretation thereof. While VA is an OC state (no silly permit required to OC), there is no legal requirement to disclose to a LEO I have a firearm (if in a vehicle). Other states require disclosure to a LEO. Also, interpretation of various state's laws leave one the impression "printing" is not concealed carry (as crazy or improbable as it sounds).

    Generally, I don't worry about printing in VA (but I still dress around the gun)...but if I were to go to SC, TX, FL (where OC is prohibited/not usual), I would keep it concealed.
    ^^^^^^^^SIGguy229^^^^hits it ^^^^I^^think^^^^^

    Also, interpretation of various state's laws leave one the impression "printing" is not concealed carry (as crazy or improbable as it sounds).

    ^^^^^Yes^^^especially^^^crazy^^^^^^


    GLAD YOU ARE HOME SAFE SIGguy!!!!!!!!!


    Quote GM
    Furthermore, there is a social aspect to consider: some unarmed citizens might be afraid of firearms, and for other people carrying a firearm is not political correct - not to mention what anti-gunners think about it


    ^^^Some people are mortified of very large dogs, should we lock-up all large dogs, or have them put down, just because SOME people are uneasy around them???
    I say to them, get over your insecurities or stay home!!!



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  14. #28
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    Texan here ...
    I too have had bulges in my shirt and pants, but I only worry if I'm not "concealed" per the definition. I check the mirror before i go out.

    TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE
    TITLE 4. EXECUTIVE BRANCH
    SUBTITLE B. LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PUBLIC PROTECTION
    CHAPTER 411. DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS
    SUBCHAPTER H. LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN
    Sec. 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
    (3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

    To be in violation, I believe the display of your weapon, or it not being concealed, must be intentional. From what I hear, in my part of Texas, an accidental grip being revealed while at a store reaching for an item on the top shelf is usually ignored or the person told "you're showing" or "pull your shirt down" by someone....Don't know from experience, I am just lumpy... but an ordinary person may guess I have a cel phone or urine bag or colostomy bag or PDA ar whatever they can imagine. But, I'm not "openly discernable by the ordinary observation of a reasonable person"


    Then again, I've carried in excess of 20 guns on my body without a LEO noticing before. (Actually there were between 3 and 5 LEOs looking at me to see if they could tell I was carrying, none could until they patted me down, and found about 17 of the ones I was wearing) [It was a demonstration I was putting on for them.]

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post

    ^^^Some people are mortified of very large dogs, should we lock-up all large dogs, or have them put down, just because SOME people are uneasy around them???
    I say to them, get over your insecurities or stay home!!!
    I understand what you mean and I agree with you to a degree; oh yeah, I really would like to tell my neighbors that if they are afraid of my big dog they better stay at home , but I am afraid that it should not be a good idea.
    Not everybody feels safe when a firearm is exposed (I think that it is unjustified too, but that is other story). I would not like to lose my job only because my “scared-to-death-of-firearms” boss realizes that I carry a firearm. Unfortunately, we live in a society there politicians and the media often presents firearms as something evil. I never have heard about a firearm that jumped out of the safe and killed people, but unarmed citizens do not always appear to understand that, and anti-gunners almost affirm it; that is the cruel reality. I think that it was here in DC that I read something like “If guns kill then mine must be defective”; that really hits it! Anti-gunners try to grab whatever they can in order to take away from us our constitutional right to defend ourselves; they want people to believe that anyone is safer by not having the right to defend themselves. All this makes me believe that breaking the law when carrying a firearm not only will put me in trouble, but also will give the anti-gunners what they want to have; on the other hand, it does not imply that I am willing to accept whatever. I might like it or not, but my democracy ends there yours begins. A CCW permit does not allow me to break the law; actually, it forces me to respect it even more.
    By the way, I never should lock-up my big dog or put him to sleep just because other people are afraid of him, what I do is to have him on a leash when we go for a walk on places where there are other people. But in my property he runs totally free.

    Stay safe.
    "The Second Amendment: America's Original Homeland Security"

  16. #30
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    Thanks for all your comments. It helps.

    To my Indiana responder, yes, I live in the Peoples Republic of Illinois. In King Richards realm. (Another totalitarian government.) Hopefully for another year, then I'm going back to Texas. I didn't elect any of the Democrats that came out of this state, but, I obey the law and respect the rule of majority. I don't like the alternatives.

    I maybe overstated my question, I do care, which is why I asked the question. I can't carry in Illinois, in any form, but I do travel and it was helpful to hear the perspectives from varying states. I see the point.

    I should have been clearer. I didn't mean to suggest that any part of the gun was visible, I meant that I would have a lump under my sweater that could be identified by a discernable eye as a firearm. I guess I have to focus on loose fitting cloths like Ayoob suggests.

    Thanks again for all your comments. It has clarified this for me and when I carry I will ensure it is 'concealed'.

    AS to the anti's, I wonder if anyone has seen any statistics comparing murders and unlawful shootings by concealed carry holders versus non-ccw holders. I believe that would be a very interesting number. Considering the fact, I believe, most unlawful shootings are committed by non-ccw holders.

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